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| #1 :: February 14th, 2011 @ 10:55 PM | |
 PerpetualAttended a Subeta Meetup!    2,583 Posts 173 Achievements  
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 Last Edit by:
Perpetual 12/20/11 - 2:57:33 am
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| #2 :: February 14th, 2011 @ 11:10 PM | |
| Aperture is a Time Lord  3,122 Posts 434 Achievements |
 @Perpetual Eh, it runs both ways. I've been bullied for being Catholic before, even if it was unintentionally done. I've also known people bullied for being Christian and as such, remaining abstinent until marriage. There are jerks and intolerant bigots in all groups, regardless of religious views. Separation of church and state is essential to freedom of religion. That said, each person will be influenced by their views in how they vote, and that may include religion. I would hope people consider each issue individually and on their own, outside of religion. For example, I support gay marriage, despite my religious background. I see it as a civil rights issue, not a religious one. But we can't expect everyone to think that way about things; people are fortunately and unfortunately free to vote however they wish.
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| #3 :: February 14th, 2011 @ 11:11 PM | |
 FaruzahThe Gourmand  5,725 Posts 834 Achievements |
@Perpetual
Quote: Honestly, other groups do not get this much BS as we do. Blacks, jews and gays with a family history of death and persecution might have atheists beat. I don't doubt that people have been met with violence for their lack of belief and it is disgusting, but I can't get past that statement.
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| #4 :: February 14th, 2011 @ 11:14 PM | |
| Perpetual Attended a Subeta Meetup! 2,583 Posts 173 Achievements |
I thought your ping was a notification for a second. Gosh. I want to be a zombie this year, but that dang notification is not appearing. >  I agree with you. Religion should not be a part of voting. You should vote as an individual, without being lead by some sort of religion or belief. Yes, it is a civil right issue. In no way should religion get involved. Honestly, religion is too imposing on some things. @Faruzah I meant currently. Nothing from the past. What's done is done. You cannot change past events. Last Edit by:
Perpetual 2/14/11 - 11:15:06 pm
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| #5 :: February 14th, 2011 @ 11:19 PM | |
| Faruzah The Gourmand 5,725 Posts 834 Achievements |
@Perpetual
Last I checked being an atheist does not prevent you from getting married. By a priest, yes. But marriage with all it's legal benefits is not being denied for your lack of faith. Pretty sure racism is still a problem these days as well. Violence against ANY group for any reason is repulsive. We need to get over our differences and work together.
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| #6 :: February 14th, 2011 @ 11:23 PM | |
| RedSekhmet Do you have a life?  6,786 Posts 863 Achievements |
 @Perpetual
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| #7 :: February 14th, 2011 @ 11:23 PM | |
| Perpetual Attended a Subeta Meetup! 2,583 Posts 173 Achievements |
You are right in that sense. However, it's a bit uncomfortable when many religious people are peering over your every activity and glaring at you. Getting over our differences and working together will most definitely take time. We are overly concerned with the motto "my way", so I doubt that will happen soon. People are only looking in one perspective, which is their own. Honestly, it will take A LOT of time for this change to actually occur in society. @RedSekhmet Overly religious people really need to calm down, and let someone else present their own view on something. They don't give others the chance to breathe when they are enforcing their values upon others. I view that as both rude and disrespectful. Last Edit by:
Perpetual 2/14/11 - 11:27:40 pm
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| #8 :: February 14th, 2011 @ 11:29 PM | |
| Faruzah The Gourmand 5,725 Posts 834 Achievements |
@Perpetual
I do know how you feel. Being a pagan in the upper northern states where just about everyone is an insular christian isn't the easiest thing ever. Unless I've talked to someone for an extensive amount of time and gotten a feel for their beliefs, I keep my spirituality to myself. Which is how I feel it should be anyway. Spiritualism is an incredibly private thing. I understand wanting to come together in belief, hence churches and circles. And that's fine. But it's not a good way to run a society as diverse in cultures and beliefs as ours.
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| #9 :: February 14th, 2011 @ 11:28 PM | |
| EmoCandyCane Only has Room for One  587 Posts 239 Achievements |
 @Perpetual You know, I've noticed this problem before  . Like, where people aren't outright /mean/ to Atheists, they at least don't seem to take them seriously. They treat Atheism like it's some phase that troubled teenagers go through, and nothing more; as if it can never, ever be counted as a religion, and that anyone who thinks it is a religion just needs to get over whatever problem has made them think that way and it will all "get better" when they find a "real" religion. I find that sort of thinking ridiculous, to be honest. Everyone should be free to their own beliefs, as long as it brings no harm to anyone else. If your beliefs mean you DON'T believe in a deity, then so what? That's how you see the world, and that is JUST as valid as anyone else's faith. Americans are overzealous about religion, particularly Christianity. They can't seem to separate religion from government, or their national identity, or anything relevant to the two. If many Christians weren't so very overbearing about their religion, the whole issue wouldn't bother me as much; but for most of them (at the very least, most of them anywhere that I have lived before), they feel compelled to press their beliefs and their morals on everyone else. I, personally, am Wiccan. I have been since I was ten; everyone assumed it was a phase I would get over, but it never was a phase for me, and I see nowhere in my future a time that I will change my mind. I was raised with a Catholic father and a "nondenominational" Christian mother, so, I really do know what I'm "missing out on". Everyone, of course, just assumes that I've never "felt the beauty of christianity" or whatever, and that MUST be why I've chosen some "wrong" path. If it's beautiful for you, then you go ahead and keep on being a Christian. But all it ever was to me, and all it still seems to be to me (its organized and most common form anyway) is a bunch of hypocrisy, closed-mindedness, and double standards. Naturally, I know not every single Christian is that way, but most of them that I have met seem to be, and this saddens me as well as frustrates me. They've gone and ruined a simple message that a good man tried to give the world. I'm not Christian, but I believe that at least most of what Jesus Christ said to the world was true; be kind to other people, love other people, take care of each other. This is certainly not what I see most Christians doing, today. I see them shunning good people for stupid things like loving a person of the same gender, or getting an abortion in an overpopulated world. I'm also an American, so, yes, I do know what it's like to live in America too. I may be a particularly un-patriotic American, but, that doesn't mean I hate every other American, and I know not /all/ of them are over-zealous, or self-righteous, or what-have-you. I hope it didn't sound like I do feel that way. |
| #10 :: February 14th, 2011 @ 11:29 PM | |
| Aperture is a Time Lord 3,122 Posts 434 Achievements |
@Perpetual Keep trying! An auto-refresher also helps a lot. :3 Religion is just a set of beliefs that individuals follow and accept. Education is the solution to the voting issues, not an end to religion. People need to examine things critically. But you can't expect everyone to start doing it on their own. You have to give them nudges in the right direction. I suppose I'm lucky because my home church always encourages research and not any particular candidates; mainly, it's because my chucrh takes a pro-life stance: not only in opposing abortion, but also in opposing capital punishment. That kinda splits things between parties. But that's a good thing! It forces you to actually think before you just check a box.
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| #11 :: February 14th, 2011 @ 11:37 PM | |
| Follywood is Darksided!  3,361 Posts 671 Achievements |
lol every group has something they have to deal with for the most part. Race, gender and sexual orientation for example(which IS still happening btw) is getting the most of discrimination so I don't know what that whole "***MY*** GROUP HAS IT OFF THE WORST!!" thing is. Maybe it's just my location but I've never really heard that much fuss about atheists being discriminated against...? At least not in America. Tbh I actually usually see it the other way around, where atheists are complaining about christians shoving religion down their throats but I've never personally really seen much religious shoving. I don't know I guess personal experiences continue to speak It is wrong no matter what to be discriminated against for a belief however, I think that's something a majority of us can agree on Last Edit by: User not found (1): memoshian 2/14/11 - 11:38:32 pm
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| #12 :: February 14th, 2011 @ 11:45 PM | |
| Perpetual Attended a Subeta Meetup! 2,583 Posts 173 Achievements |
Yeah, I'm not all too keen on being ruled by one religious group or by any religious group for that matter. I am an open Atheist, however, I don't force people to follow my thoughts on something or to believe in them. I have many religious friends, and I honestly don't mind that they're religious in any way. If religion is being shoved down my throat, then I will retaliate though. I just don't want religion being plastered everywhere or being included in politics. @ I keep pressing F5, but it is not working. It's so frustrating. Yeah, I agree. We must think of a solution though. I keep imagining protests, rebellions, wars, etc. starting because of this (which I hope does not happen). I agree. Nudges will help them in the right direction, however, a concrete solution should be found. @EmoCandyCane I couldn't have agreed more. Honestly, the only religion I see as a good influence on society is Buddhism. I'm not Buddhist, but hey, they aren't overbearing of their religion. Nature. Period. That's it. How complicated is that? Atheism seems right to me. Everything about it. My beliefs coincide with it. It's in sync/harmony with what I believe. @memoshian I posted my response, only to find that another response has been made towards this topic. I hate when that happens. It means I have to go and edit my post. Oh, well. Anyways, I don't see a lot of Atheists here complaining. We don't usually say much where I live honestly. Anyways, here in America, the majority of the people here are Christian. I don't understand how a minimal amount of Atheists can actually do anything towards the Christians, since Christians are the majority in this country. I agree that any sort of discrimiation should be frowned upon. I said that "my group was being bashed" because in a sense it was. I know there are a lot of other groups out there that are getting more BS than us. No one should be getting this BS. I'm sure religion has a huge part in all this BS though. Last Edit by:
Perpetual 2/14/11 - 11:51:20 pm
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| #13 :: February 14th, 2011 @ 11:52 PM | |
| Fiain is a Time Lord  621 Posts 345 Achievements |
I'm a bisexual Wiccan so I've felt the brutality of the two "on top" types of people that I just mentioned.
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| #14 :: February 14th, 2011 @ 11:52 PM | |
| Aperture is a Time Lord 3,122 Posts 434 Achievements |
@Perpetual I have Reloadevery for Firefox? You can tell it to refresh every few seconds. Makes it much easier. :3 It's not that bad. XD The average person is not like the fanatics who yell the loudest. The average person would prefer that life stay fairly peaceful unless something really bad happens to stir them up. And honestly? The average person is fairly willing to let other people just live their lives. And there are those who try to reach out for more peaceful situations. Heck, what we're doing right now is progress! This is how things change: two people having open, constructive dialogues. But there isn't a concrete solution. People are free to act as intelligently or stupidly as they wish. Gotta love America, right?
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| #15 :: February 14th, 2011 @ 11:53 PM | |
| EmoCandyCane Only has Room for One 587 Posts 239 Achievements |
@Perpetual See, even if I'm not Atheist and never could be, I think it's wonderful that you've found something that your beliefs fit so well with :3, something that you really are "in sync" with. I think any form of religion is great when it serves that purpose, fulfilling the individual, I just hate to see people kill the whole effect by forcing their faith and morals on other people that don't feel the same way. Nature is the main focus of my beliefs as well :3. It saddens me that so many people dismiss it as utterly unimportant xD, but that's another debate entirely. |
| #16 :: February 14th, 2011 @ 11:58 PM | |
| Perpetual Attended a Subeta Meetup! 2,583 Posts 173 Achievements |
Does it refresh all the time for that set amount of seconds? Yeah, I agree. The average person just wants to live a peaceful, easy going life. If your fur is ruffled, then of course you'd fight back. That is just the way of things. Yeah, open conversation between two opposing forces is great. Yeah, haha. America is one of a kind. Literally. @Fiain I'm not sure what to call myself. I'm of European lineage, so European? Idk. I'm not entirely sure why this has to do with Whites, but okay. You have your freedom of speech, as do I. As I've stated before, Atheists are the minority. I'm sure that Christians spit on Atheists more considering the large quantity of Americans who are Christian. If one billboard comes up for Atheists, three more pop up for the Christians. @EmoCandyCane As long as no morals or beliefs are getting shoved down my throat, I don't mind any sort of religion. I prefer a peaceful lifestyle, without any unrest. Yeah, I like how Atheism fits with my views on things. That's why I'm Atheist. Nature is just awesome, and it is important. If there were no trees, then how would we be able to survive? I absolutely adore nature, and that's partially why I like photography. Last Edit by:
Perpetual 2/15/11 - 12:02:16 am
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| #17 :: February 15th, 2011 @ 12:01 AM | |
| Fiain is a Time Lord 621 Posts 345 Achievements |
I was mentioning race as another group struggling along to be heard so that's why whites were included in what seems to me to be the 'norm' groups nowadays Though I'm not particularly sure why you brought up being European, myself...
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| #18 :: February 15th, 2011 @ 12:01 AM | |
| Aperture is a Time Lord 3,122 Posts 434 Achievements |
@Perpetual It refreshes every set number of seconds until you turn it off. Yup! It's a wonderful and terrible place for exactly the same reasons. Freedom of speech is awesome until you realize everyone else has it too. XD
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| #19 :: February 15th, 2011 @ 12:06 AM | |
| Perpetual Attended a Subeta Meetup! 2,583 Posts 173 Achievements |
I honestly don't know what to classify myself as. There is no "option" on anything that says a mixed race. I am a mix between Russian/German/Turkish. I just say White. Makes everything a lot simpler. Ah, as a group? I see. I was beginning to wonder why you had stated that. The "norm" group? In terms of religious controversy yes, but in terms of the "norm"? No. Indians and Chinese take up that role. @ Ah. I see. Maybe I should get it. I hope it makes the whole "getting the notification" thing faster. Haha. Very true. XD Everyone has that "freedom of speech" that seems to oppose everyone elses. Funny how that is.
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| #20 :: February 15th, 2011 @ 12:09 AM | |
| Fiain is a Time Lord 621 Posts 345 Achievements |
In your debate topic you clearly stated this being wholly an American standpoint.. According to your opening statement, we aren't talking about the rest of the world, just centering on America or that region. And see as how Indians/Chinese aren't the dominant race there.. I'm a little confused as to what your actual statement is now.. because that's what I meant as the 'norm' being in, since you stated America.
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| #21 :: February 15th, 2011 @ 12:09 AM | |
| Aperture is a Time Lord 3,122 Posts 434 Achievements |
@Perpetual It should. And check the healer to make sure you didn't just miss a notification. It's because it's easier to talk than listen. I didn't like hearing people like Brother Micah in my college, but he had the right to stand there spouting what I and most others think is total bullcrap. I just ignored him. Useful skill I picked up from having a younger sister. XD
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| #22 :: February 15th, 2011 @ 12:16 AM | |
| Perpetual Attended a Subeta Meetup! 2,583 Posts 173 Achievements |
I'm a proud American. I just said I was from a European lineage.... I included England in my statement, meaning I haven't limited my standpoint to just America. In terms of population, Indians and Chinese dominate all. Yeah, the majority of the people here in America are white. Most of which are Christian. The second largest population are the Hispanics, who are either Christian or Catholic. Christianity is the major religion here, so I doubt Atheists have the power to stand up against the Christians themselves. A good 95 percent of America is Christian, so I don't see how Atheists are doing much of anything. @ Ah. I see. I'll have to try that. Thanks for letting me know. Maybe now I'll get it faster. Yeah, listening doesn't do much of anything. Getting out your opinion about the whole situation does at least do something. Conversing and compromising are the things that should be done. Haha. Nice. XD Ignoring is the way to everything. It is actually. Haha. Last Edit by:
Perpetual 2/15/11 - 12:19:18 am
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| #23 :: February 15th, 2011 @ 12:22 AM | |
| Fiain is a Time Lord 621 Posts 345 Achievements |
You're jumping from a world-population view to American-population view. To clarify your actual debate could you edit your opening post or something? Because now you have me confused.. I wasn't talking about world-population whatsoever, but I've lived all over Europe and now reside in Canada so I COULD give more input into the matter if I actually had clarification.. And the numbers aren't THAT high.. Please do a little research if you're going to be posting statistics to back-up your claims.  I really don't mean to be rude at all, sorry xD it's just you're making this debate a little confusing for me by jumping around.
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| #24 :: February 15th, 2011 @ 12:30 AM | |
| Perpetual Attended a Subeta Meetup! 2,583 Posts 173 Achievements |
About 80 percent of Americans are Christians currently. It is still a large majority. I know it has nothing to do with population, but you said that the norm was white. That why I put in the "Indians and Chinese" part. I just felt the need to put it in, even though this topic does not pertain to population. I'm comparing the world with America in a sense. Sorry for the confusion. Yeah, I tend to do that.
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| #25 :: February 15th, 2011 @ 2:11 AM | |
| temporaryplaceholder is a DANCING QUEEN  1,607 Posts 329 Achievements |
 I see this as a two part issue: 1) Should an atheist be judged? 2) Is society delivering the correct judgement? To answer the first issue, it is important to acknowledge that religion is not a "personal" issue. To make a comparison, race and sexuality are both "personal" issues. One person is black, or one person is white. There is no group rule as to what is the "right" sexuality or the "right" race; that depends on one's own, personal, genetic make-up. Religion, by contrast, applies to all of us. If there IS a god, he rules over all of us. If there isn't a god, then that applies to all of us, and those who worship him are wrong. It is not personal in that "he's black, I'm white, and that's fine." No. In the case of "he's Christian, he's atheist" one of them is wrong. In turn, one of them is to be judged- and if necessary, silenced. I don't mean killed or literally censored- but if we were to take a vote on an issue that their religion is involved with (say, homosexual rights) then since they are wrong- their opinion is thus invalid, and should be discarded. So an atheist IS to be judged, but then comes issue 2- have they been given the correct judgement? If they are being persecuted or attacked in some manner, that answer is most obviously no. For starters atheism is the "correct" choice, but I'll save myself getting into that one (off topic) but highlight that even if atheists were wrong, some of what they have experienced has been excessively over-the-top anyway, considering atheism has never perpetrated any evil upon humanity. Anyway, you may be overstating the crap atheists get, but not excessively, I don't think... It certainly looks that way when we compare it to what I feel is totally irrelevant for a religious discussion (eg, race and sexuality, which are not religious issues and thus a whole different debate)... or if we discard history- where "the doubters" were executed or banished... but if I put that into perspective, I think it's fair to say that atheists have certainly had an unreasonably hard time. Nowadays it is much better though. I can't say I have heard of many physical attacks, but social ostracism is still prevalent and atheism is most easily one of the most mis-represented and despised "faiths" if you will, and getting the same type of treatment as a Christian, is an exception- not the norm. Perhaps the only break they get is the large majority of atheists don't exactly have group gatherings and thus do not receive many co-ordinated group criticism. Last Edit by:
temporaryplaceholder 2/15/11 - 7:53:27 am
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| #26 :: February 15th, 2011 @ 5:37 AM | |
| BradTheMad Only has Room for One  283 Posts 278 Achievements |
Well since most countries have freedom of religion atheists should be included as it is their belief that there is no G'd or whatever. It's a belief too.
As for atheists getting threathened or even beaten up I never heard of this but I'm not surprised this happens. Bigots can be found anywhere and, heck, some folks will beat others up for simply wearing a wrong color. Every group is guilty of racism in one form or another. Saying that atheists get the most BS of any group though...ouch. I take it much of your family hasn't "disappeared" in the 30's and 40's nor suffer violence every week or so? Just last month a friend of mine ended up in the IC of a hospital and just a day after that our synagogue was spray painted...oh what fun. Sad thing is, stuff like this happens almost daily. It's not a thing of the past you know? Same goes for other minority groups who are treated like dirt; much more than atheists have. Doesn't make treatment of atheists any less worse though but that sentence is just plain wrong. I see you already withdrew that comment mostly but I just needed to vent a little. America is indeed not a friendly country for atheists, though the founding fathers were pretty much atheists(just look at some of their quotes), the US as it is today is very much based on Christian values which in itself isn't bad but they've gone too far. Also, I do think the number of atheists is much higher but that most are afraid to voice their opinion because it's become somewhat of a societal norm to be Christian. Tthe US also isn't as tolerant towards other faiths even though it might seem that way at face value. Trust me, you are more or less tolerated but not really accepted (unless you are a Reform Jew as they are more "Americanized"). Personally I have nothing against atheists as long as they leave me be, I won't convert you so please show me the same courtesy. If everyone lived by that rule I think the world would be a much better place. See, I laughed myself silly at Maher's documentary called Religulous but others might find things like that very offensive. It seems most atheists are asking for acceptance whilst ridiculing others in a sense of "we have every right to be here because you are all nuts". I've been an atheist for some time, shock horror LOL, and in those days I never once met an atheist that had anything positive to say about religion. It was all in the spirit of "look at those idiots". All friends I had back then left me because I had "gone off the deep end" and two even approached me about putting me in a mental hospital until I was sane again... Respect goes both ways and if the most vocal atheists are agressive and/or direspectful in their approach I don't think behavior towards atheists will change any time soon. Every group is guilty of this and atheists aren't an exception because they have no religion making up a bunch of "BS". Just my personal experiences, do with it what you want. In the end I'm positive though and I'm certain things will work out for the best.
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| #27 :: February 25th, 2011 @ 2:00 AM | |
| Tomorrow is a Mirage  3,947 Posts 608 Achievements |
@Perpetual Quote: A good 95% of the US is christian, but that does not give them the right to push us in a corner.A good 95% of the US is christian, but that does not give them the right to push us in a corner. Where did you get that statistic..? And even if people report being 'religious' a large part of them only report that way because it has been ingrained in them; IE, they're not practising. And no, it doesn't give them the right to bash Atheists, just as being an Atheist doesn't give one the right to bash religious people. It's immoral and makes other people feel bad. That is, unless, of course, believing something different makes one less than human. In which case the person saying so is just a bigot. I mean, philosopher after philosopher and holy script after holy script states the "golden rule"- treat everyone like what they are: people. This crops up in everything from traditional religions like Christianity, Islam, Judaism, Confucianism, Taoism Hinduism and Buddhism to Greek and Roman Philosophers (and modern ones) to Pagan religions such as Wicca and modern religions such as Humanism. I mean, its absolutely everywhere. The sad thing is with all this- we still feel a need to be 'better' than someone else. It's a matter of 'us and them' Damn- I wish I had my research on that right now.... I think you might find it interesting =( Last Edit by: User not found (1): tomorrowShadow 2/25/11 - 2:02:17 am
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| #28 :: February 25th, 2011 @ 2:46 AM | |
| Perpetual Attended a Subeta Meetup! 2,583 Posts 173 Achievements |
Google. And of course, the News. I don't mind believers as long as they don't shove religion down my throat. I have many friends that are either Catholic, Muslim, or Christian. I don't mind, and they don't mind my Atheist views. I have many friends that are Atheist as well. I tend to be quiet with these matters, but it irks me when people try to convert me. I am an Atheist, so deal with it. Yeah, I do think that it is a matter of people thinking they're better than another group. It's quite sad to see, but that is reality. I see humans as animals at times. They don't think to stop, they just continue with their horrid ways. I think peace is what we all should strive for, yet we somehow aren't even looking towards that? Anyways, that's just me typing too much. Yeah, I would've liked to see your report. I find that seeing both ways is a must when trying to settle a problem.
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| #29 :: February 25th, 2011 @ 3:38 AM | |
| Mentore is a Time Lord  8,171 Posts 634 Achievements |
Quote: A good 95% of the US is christian, but that does not give them the right to push us in a corner. Really? Where'd you get that statistic? I'd love to know. Quote: Christians, Catholics, Muslims (...not sure about this one), etc. are able to express themselves freely in a way, while we cannot. This is due to the fact that they believe in some sort of "higher power", while we do not. Christians were persecuted for generations, thousands of years in the Middle East - the religion didn't necessarily originate from England. It came from Israel, along with some denominations of the Muslim religion. Catholics aren't exactly untarnished either, with the Crusades in the Middle Ages. Oh, and let's not forget the Jews and the Holocaust. That's not to say you're wrong-wrong-wrong, that's saying that they "never got BS" is kind of exaggerated. Quote: Another thing that causes worry for me is the fact that the government is getting too involved with religion. The separation of church and state is a misinterpretation of the law: that the government shall not make a state church like the Church of England (go look it up, read that section of the American Constitution), allowing for people to pick and chose their religions. In short, be thankful you can actually go and say, "Yes, I have the right to practice this religion or lack thereof." In the Church of England, you would be denied the right to own land, invest in things, etc etc etc. Quote: The US is a bit too religious. I thought England was the main source of Christianity, but that is somehow wrong. The people of England have been surveyed, and I have found out that a small majority go to church. In the US however, many people go to church. Religion is the bases of ones life. It's controlling in a way. America is a mixing bowl of believers and nonbelievers, united in a belief that everyone can believe in what they want. Yes, it's very controlling. It's also a fundamental basis of morals, the most common of which being treating others how you would want to be treated. Unless you like having someone walk up to you and slap you across the face for no good reason? In which case, I'm in no position to judge. Quote: People cannot control others. Conversions shouldn't be in process if one does not want to be converted. Rules that have so much BS should not be considered rules, etc. Yet, people continue to believe that they can control others in other means - abusive relationships, slavery, oppressive government regimes (Libya should be proof of this) and so on. This is human nature, that desire to control something or someone in the worst case scenarios. Now, having said all that, I'll add two small behind the post facts - I was raised in a Christian household/my parents are Christian and I'm sort of "unorthodox" Christian (i.e. there are parts of the religion I believe in, and there are others that make me cringe and go, "You want me to believe THAT? I don't care if it's in the Bible.") Did any of those Christian views influence this post? No.
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| #30 :: February 25th, 2011 @ 8:49 AM | |
Made a Living  1,858 Posts 485 Achievements |
Quote By @Perpetual:
Christianity is the major religion here, so I doubt Atheists have the power to stand up against the Christians themselves. If you view a situation as hostile, then it will become so. This is not a team sport. All Christians aren't out to convert all atheists, just as all atheists aren't out to destroy humanity. If you stop thinking of this as a group of people being buttheads and instead think of it as individuals being buttheads, I think you'll be happier Not to mention, the nice, normal Christians will appreciate it.
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| #31 :: February 25th, 2011 @ 2:19 PM | |
| JESSYTA Is the Richest User  17,638 Posts 1,312 Achievements |
 Quote By @Perpetual: Christians, Catholics, Muslims (...not sure about this one), etc. are able to express themselves freely in a way, while we cannot. This is due to the fact that they believe in some sort of "higher power", while we do not.Can you give examples of your freedom of speech has been limited due to your religious beliefs? Quote By @Perpetual:
I disagree, I think that Jehovah's Witness get a lot of BS, as do Muslims. Quote By @Perpetual: The US is a bit too religious. I thought England was the main source of Christianity, but that is somehow wrong. The people of England have been surveyed, and I have found out that a small majority go to church. In the US however, many people go to church. Religion is the bases of ones life. It's controlling in a way.I bet if you believed in a god you wouldn't feel that it was 'too religious'. My opinion is that you are overstating the "abuse" that atheists are subjected to.
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| #32 :: March 12th, 2011 @ 9:28 AM | |
| Belligerent Is the Pumpkin King!  4,460 Posts 1,104 Achievements |
Quote By @Perpetual:
A good 95% of the US is christian, but that does not give them the right to push us in a corner. Yeah. Funny, I don't believe that. I am a Christian, and I perhaps know 15 Christians in real life.. I know way more atheists. I'd say the ratio is 10:1 atheist: Christians IRL. I live in the Bible belt too. Don't worry, I have a feeling in 2-3 generations, there will be barely any Christians left in the world.
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| #33 :: March 22nd, 2011 @ 11:52 PM | |
| chinacat Gets Around  3,194 Posts 642 Achievements |
The majority of people who 'say they're Christian' tend not to be if you really pay attention to the way they act, say things, and just their overall moral system. Just wanted to point that out, since it seems at least somewhat relevant in this conversation. To say your group gets the worst treatment is a bit... I dunno, naive in my eyes. A lot of groups get a lot of problems from a lot of other groups, I don't really think any specific group gets the worst for a very long period of time. For a long time (and even now in some places) blacks get hassled over the tiniest things, and right now I think the homosexual and bisexual community is getting a LOT more hatred than Atheists. At least as an Atheist you can still be married without getting slandered, beaten, and sometimes even killed. At least you can walk down the street without getting attacked and/or killed just for how you look (i.e. a homosexual who's 'flamboyant' or a minority). I myself have been assaulted verbally and physically for being Christian, or even CLAIMING to be without practicing/preaching to anybody - so I know what it's like to be 'cast aside' and mistreated because of a religion or lack thereof, but I really think you should step back and realize just about every group gets loveed over as far as judgment goes.
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| #34 :: April 19th, 2011 @ 4:58 PM | |
| SHEik The Gourmand  2,008 Posts 902 Achievements |
I would like to say it does go both ways. I have seen several religious people (my little sister included) being bullied and harassed because of their beliefs. I had more, but I have to go get my sister from school. I'll add more at a later date.,
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| #35 :: April 19th, 2011 @ 5:10 PM | |
| The_Fallen Le Extreme Spammer  3,306 Posts 125 Achievements |
@Perpetual I am sorry to hear you was offended. I'm a Christian, and I'm of this mind-set: All I can do is talk some (but without trying to sound pushy on the matter) about what I believe, the rest is up to the person I am talking to. I believe in the First Amendment, we all have a right to chose if we want Religion or not, I personaly accept and try to live a Religious life. When I read that you said people was beaten and forced out of their homes, that made me upset, and I'm sorry to hear that for those poor people. I dearly thank you for reading, and I wish you well in life, take care. 
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Never forget, September, 11'th, 2001.
Special Thanks to my friend, Chaly for my ForumSet.| #36 :: May 14th, 2011 @ 11:28 PM | |
| LilMissChibi is a SUPER USER!!!  3,085 Posts 258 Achievements |
All I can say is I just do the best I can to be a nice person. This means I don't shove my beliefs down others' throats. I'm Christian, but I have lots of wonderful friends of various other faiths (and also who are not people of faith). They are all good people and lead wonderful fulfilling lives. I know that being an atheist/agnostic/anything *not* Christian doesn't mean you're amoral or that your life is empty and shallow and meaningless. (And also that being a Christian doesn't mean you're better than anyone else.)
I once heard it said that "Having a religion is like having a penis: it's OK to have one, and to enjoy it, and to be proud of having one. But it's not OK to just whip it out wherever and whenever you please, and it's not OK to just ram it down people's throats." Yes, the image is a bit crude, but it makes sense. If asked about my beliefs, I will share them, but I don't preach at random. Nor do I look down on people of different faiths (or no faith.)
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| #37 :: May 14th, 2011 @ 11:37 PM | |
| NineInchNails Has a Massive Family  3,031 Posts 630 Achievements |
There's no. Nothing left for me. When all beauty's destroyed. That IS exactly why a hate religion. There's no. Nothing left to see. Once all beauty's destroyed.
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| #38 :: May 14th, 2011 @ 11:57 PM | |
| MrCool Do you have a life?  7,147 Posts 1,158 Achievements |
First of all, I will say that I have been a Catholic for my entire life. From what I've seen, the government isn't too intertwined with religion, or at least not compared to some countries throughout the world and history. Not to mention that I am pretty sure that putting down others because of their religious beliefs or believing that you are better than others because of your religious beliefs actually goes against the teachings of Jesus in the bible anyway. I feel like a lot of those people that shove their beliefs down others throats are more using their religion as a shield to expressing their own beliefs and ideals rather than the actual ideology of their religion.
Buying discounted Kumos items and intelligence boosters.
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| #39 :: August 20th, 2011 @ 2:58 AM | |
| Phantomguise Only has Room for One  553 Posts 107 Achievements |
@Perpetual; The government has always been involved with religion. Always. There is very little chance of that ever changing, so don't waste your breath complaining about it. Move to an atheist country. Even so, that does not mean that the government only concentrates on religious issues. Our government has done a number of pretty great things to help protect its people. (Read The American Pageant and find out.) Our government has also done a great number of things to harm them. Religion is irrelevant in terms of goodness or badness. And no, atheists don't get as much crap currently, and they never will. Blacks, Hispanics, Jews, and many other minorities are given much more crap than people who do not believe in God. That is likely the way things will always be as well. You can hide not believing in God. You can't hide the way you talk, look, etc. Those people will always be targeted over people with invisible differences. Hostility toward them comes from a fear of different things. It's how Nazis came out, the Ku Klux Klan, and all other hate groups. Things will always be that way, too. People naturally want things to stay the way they are, and want to keep away from change. Lastly, if you don't want to get picked on for being an atheist then don't loveing advertise it. 8D Last Edit by:
Phantomguise 8/20/11 - 3:00:05 am
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| #40 :: August 20th, 2011 @ 3:57 AM | |
is a big bully  1,370 Posts 449 Achievements |
@Perpetual Last Edit by: User not found (1): Cuckoo 8/20/11 - 3:57:59 am
resrey@turntable.fm fan me brah |
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