Queer By Choice

C
R
E
A
T
E

A
D

Subeta Forums > Debate

Queer By Choice

#1 :: October 12th, 2011 @ 2:15 PM

Is Lonely

3,097 Posts
598 Achievements

I came across an article from my very religious friend and it had a link to:

http://www.queerbychoice.com/

I myself am bisexual and at first felt like this was just plain out ridiculous. I know that nobody has found a gay gene yet, but I feel personally that being gay may be hormonal in the womb.

However, after reading this site with an open mind per se, I feel that being gay may in fact be a choice either by direct or indirect decisions made by the individual. What's your view?

#2 :: October 12th, 2011 @ 3:24 PM

is a Mirage

1,410 Posts
423 Achievements

@
If you ask my opinion, I think it's impossible to say definitively whether people are born with or choose their sexuality.

You'll find people who quote the ever-famous scientist Alfred Kinsey, who did a lot of work in the field of sexology. One of the things Kinsey is remembered for saying is that human sexuality is on a continuum, that it's never static. The Kinsey scale ranges from 0 to 6, with 0 being completely heterosexual and 6 being completely homosexual, with a factor of X being added later for asexuality. A person's rating on the Kinsey scale basically describes what kind of relationships they've been engaging in at that point in their life. That isn't necessarily part of my point, but it is interesting to consider.

My point is something a little different. I said at the start of this that I don't think anyone can say for sure whether it's choice or inborn. Let's say a woman who's a frequent visitor at a gym (let's be super stereotypical in our setup, just for the hell of it). Let's say said woman has only had relationships with men her entire life. She's got a gym buddy who does the machines and everything with her, and the two of them talk all the time and are very good friends. Let's say that over time, our woman starts to feel an attraction towards her friend, first emotional, then physical. Despite the fact that she's been with men up to this point, she's developed an attraction towards someone of her own gender. When her current relationship with her boyfriend falls through, her friend is there for her, and after many long nights of talking about how they feel, the woman and her friend decide to start up a relationship together.

Now, was this woman born a lesbian and has just been repressing/denying/ignoring her true orientation her whole life? Or was she straight--because of her prior relationships with men--and then began date another woman because she "became" a lesbian? Or was it something else altogether?

If you ask me, I don't think it's as black and white as some people try to make it. If anything, I see it as an individual thing. If people say that they feel they were born gay/lesbian/whichever word they prefer to use, I can't prove them wrong. When people say they feel they chose that path, I still can't prove them wrong. Maybe it's really just one or the other, and maybe it's more of a gray area. Until science shows me a gay gene to prove that it's definitely one way, I think we can't say for sure.

Amazing art by Cliodna.

my personal tumblr
my silly ask tumblr

#3 :: October 12th, 2011 @ 4:24 PM

Silly Spamming Sausage

262 Posts
316 Achievements

Oh god, this site again. I've had people link this to me in the past, so I've seen it before. At least they've fixed all the typos and mis-spellings now.

To be frank, I believe that this site is misguided at best.
Who you're attracted to, in my opinion, is an emotional essence. And you can't choose your emotions, obviously.
You can, however, act on your emotions.
Acting on your actions is a choice. "acting gay" is a choice, which is influenced by emotion.
Does that mean it's a negative thing? Not at all.
Is acting from emotion a negative thing? It can be. But there's a difference between being gay because your emotions are telling you to love someone of the same sex and between taking a bat to someone's windshield because you were angry that they cut you off.

i have the best signature

#4 :: October 12th, 2011 @ 4:36 PM

Is Lonely

3,097 Posts
598 Achievements

@

I stundied Kinsley for years in college and I believe that he has the most accurate sexuality model out there. I think attraction is fluid, the site never once says that it is a sin or that it really is wrong per se.

Then again, I also have heard of kids who have SSA since they were about 5 or who knew they were trans as young kids, so I have no idea...it could be both?

#5 :: October 12th, 2011 @ 8:03 PM

is a Time Lord

896 Posts
493 Achievements

@
I don't believe that your sexual orientation, by any means, is a choice. One does not choose who they are attracted to, or have romantic feelings towards. Those emotions or feelings, or that attraction is there whether you want them to be there or not. The problem with viewing homosexuality as a choice is that it implies that by default everyone is straight. If one can choose to be homosexual then that reinforces the arguments made by those who would say that homosexuality is unnatural, and thus a sin and to be avoided. By that logic you can choose no to be gay.
And honestly? Who would choose to be gay? I think many people, given the choice to be attracted the gender that would not gain the prejudice of everyone who is against homosexuality, would "choose" to be straight.

@
Your example failed to take into consideration that the woman was simply bisexual with a preference towards men. There are people who are only ever attracted to one sex or the other. If you're attracted to both men and women - as is the case with the woman in your example - then you are bisexual.

Edit:

Also, it is not up to other people to judge another person's sexuality. They are what they say they are.

Last Edit by: Autumn9009 10/12/11 - 8:36:47 pm

"Sometimes you wake up. Sometimes the fall kills you.
And sometimes, when you fall, you fly." ~ Neil Gaiman

#6 :: October 12th, 2011 @ 9:26 PM

is a Mirage

1,410 Posts
423 Achievements

@
Admittedly, I was just oversimplifying things. I didn't intend for the example I gave to cover all possible bases.

Amazing art by Cliodna.

my personal tumblr
my silly ask tumblr

#7 :: October 12th, 2011 @ 10:37 PM

is a Time Lord

4,605 Posts
611 Achievements

No. Just no.

Nobody decides, "Hey, I'm going to be gay from now on." Anyone who does that is really:

1. Deciding to be open about who they are. They were always gay (or bi), but were in denial or simply didn't understand. Many people are still ignorant that anyone can be gay.

2. Pretending to be gay. Why would someone do this, when, in a country such as the US, they may put themselves in a dangerous situation? For attention. There are many, many people who hate gays, but there are also many people who like them, either simply viewing them as just another human being or they -- for the lack of a better word -- fangirl/guy over them.

Nobody just decides to be gay. The ones who say they did are ignorant. Honestly, I wish they would keep their idiocy hidden, because they are only hurting the cause of those who are intelligent enough to realize that it's not a choice.

Yes, it is completely possible for a heterosexual to be in a homosexual relationship, just as a homosexual person can choose to be in a heterosexual relationship. Does that make the straight person gay or the gay person straight? No. Their relationship might be, but they are not.

* * * * * *

I saw the constellations reveal themselves one star at a time.

#8 :: October 12th, 2011 @ 10:41 PM

is Darksided!

3,347 Posts
666 Achievements

I don't believe it's a choice exactly... but I feel it very well could be a result of 'nurture' I guess(as opposed to nature--or being born with it)? Not a lot of people agree with me on this, but I feel that we are all born bisexual and as we go through life we learn what our preferences are based on experiences. I don't feel that sexual orientation is anymore complicated than finding blonde hair or blue eyes attractive. It wasn't until the most recent part of the human timeline when we decided that there must be labels and lines in our sexuality. There must be heterosexuality, there must be homosexuality, there must be bisexuality, etc... it's not 'okay' to just have boundless love.

If you look back to ancient parts of the world for example, it was very common for people to find companionship in pretty much anyone basically, and that wasn't considered abnormal. It was actually considered pretty narrow-minded to only pursue one sex. Now tell me, why would that change? Has the concept of love changed? Have we 'evolved' to the state where some people are only capable of loving one sex? I doubt it. I think it's very possible that it's just a system created by society. Hundreds of years from now the world may move back into being generally bisexual, look back at our time period, and think of what ignorant people we must have been to spend so much emphasis on the superficial aspects of love. Who knows.

art

#9 :: October 13th, 2011 @ 1:15 AM

is a Time Lord

896 Posts
493 Achievements

@
Understandable. And I apologize if I came of as snappy. xD;
(Your HA is super cool, btw.)

"Sometimes you wake up. Sometimes the fall kills you.
And sometimes, when you fall, you fly." ~ Neil Gaiman

#10 :: October 13th, 2011 @ 3:50 AM

is a Mirage

3,947 Posts
608 Achievements

While there is a hormonal component in sexuality (as well as a developmental piece, influenced by, guess what, hormones)- the idea that it's "choice" is just stupid. I choose that I'm bi just as much as I choose to menstruate.

Hoarding:

693/???

#11 :: October 13th, 2011 @ 6:00 AM

The Royal

2,540 Posts
821 Achievements

I didn't choose to live day-to-day knowing tomorrow I could be excommunicated. (per se, my family isn't mormon) I'm an identical twin and I remember from a really young age always being quite different, but, I had someone to imitate. Until a few years ago I was so caught up being someone else, trying to fit an image, I lost out on who I was growing up. Sexuality is as much of a choice as the earth is flat.

[ Style-File ]

#12 :: October 13th, 2011 @ 4:30 PM

Is a Master Chef!

9,527 Posts
1,248 Achievements

I don't believe who we're attracted to is a choice. Either we are, or we aren't (though attraction can change as we get to know someone).

But the real question, in my mind, is why does it matter? Whether its choice, genes, hormones, nurture or some combination, some people are gay, most aren't. If a person can only accept gay based on some perception that "it isn't their fault" - one is making an assumption that its bad to be gay. Do you only accept people with blue eyes because its genetic? No, eye colour just isn't that big a deal. That's how we should look at people who are gay.

Visit my pet Acajou--Visit my pet Noisette

#13 :: October 16th, 2011 @ 10:54 AM

Only has Room for One

286 Posts
207 Achievements

This is how I show my love
Maybe I'm not listening

I don't think it is a choice. Why would someone chose a lifestyle where so many will judge them? We can not help who we fall in love with and that can be said about many different couples, not just gay couples.

To me, long as you are happy, true to yourself and to your lover, then I don't care. Don't try to force someone to be like you and accept that people are different and won't be like you.

So blame it on my A.D.D baby

#14 :: November 1st, 2011 @ 11:22 AM

Member

36 Posts
2 Achievements

I don't think it's a choice. I'm bisexual, and I've often felt bad because I can choose which gender I go out with (although at certain times of the year, for some reason, I tend to be more attracted to one gender or the other), but then I remember that bisexuals get a lot of crap in the gay community so I don't feel so bad about it.

Though - even if it was a choice, why would it matter? People always bring this up in debates, but honestly, I don't think it should even be a concern. There's nothing logically wrong with being gay, without having to bring up the issue of whether it's a choice or not.

#15 :: November 2nd, 2011 @ 1:51 PM

is a Skilled Hooker

222 Posts
305 Achievements

Quote:

To me, long as you are happy, true to yourself and to your lover, then I don't care.

What if it's not a monogamous relationship?

@ Not to nit pick. I just think it's silly to advocate one way of loving while ignoring completely another, when they're both generally unaccepted.

Last Edit by: ~~Yopishia~~ 11/02/11 - 1:56:34 pm

If I offended you, make my day by telling me about it.

^{Quick, TL;DR and then pretend like you're awesome despite being an ignorant fool.}

#16 :: November 2nd, 2011 @ 6:29 PM

Is Lonely

3,097 Posts
598 Achievements

@

Sorry, but what is unaccepted?

#17 :: November 2nd, 2011 @ 11:54 PM

is a Skilled Hooker

222 Posts
305 Achievements

@ polyamory.

Last Edit by: ~~Yopishia~~ 11/02/11 - 11:56:35 pm

If I offended you, make my day by telling me about it.

^{Quick, TL;DR and then pretend like you're awesome despite being an ignorant fool.}

#18 :: November 3rd, 2011 @ 12:55 AM

Tongue Wagger

2,003 Posts
671 Achievements

I read the stuff in the "The Implications of Choice" section. The only question I can think of is: why can't "they" just be queer? Why does it have to be a choice?

I feel that sexuality can be shaped and influenced by so many factors. Everyone is different, so I just don't understand why people feel the need to explain themselves. I find it hard how anyone, more so a homosexual, can call it a choice. It's so much more complicated than that. Acting on your emotions is certainly a choice, but choosing and dictating them is impossible.

Critically speaking, the writer's arguments are poorly supported, and often weak. The criticisms that were considered had unclear counter arguements that lacked real evidence and explanations were often biased. Also, using religion and science at the same time to support his/her/their ideas was just messy.

#19 :: November 3rd, 2011 @ 1:12 AM

Newbie

9 Posts
49 Achievements

I think it's part genetic, part conditioning. Someone is born with genetic tendencies from what happens in the womb, and then the environment brings out more of it.

#20 :: November 3rd, 2011 @ 1:52 AM

has LOTS of clothes

22 Posts
500 Achievements

Quote By @Lypsyl:

If a person can only accept gay based on some perception that "it isn't their fault" - one is making an assumption that its bad to be gay. Do you only accept people with blue eyes because its genetic? No, eye colour just isn't that big a deal. That's how we should look at people who are gay.

My thoughts exactly. I know the subject is interesting to many people, but attempting to pinpoint exactly what it is that causes homosexuality (or anything but heterosexuality) kind of makes it seem like gay people are some weird anomaly to be studied and rationalized. Not that I'm saying sexuality shouldn't be studied, I just mean that we should first take a step back and remember that we're all human.

That aside, I don't believe there is one single blanket answer to sexuality. Even though the idea of someone choosing their sexuality seems silly to me, what if there are people out there who have made it a decision? It's most likely something that differs from person to person.

DeviantArt :