Warning: Creating default object from empty value in /www/subeta.net/forums/index.php on line 49 Proposed Darkonite Revamp - Subeta
Proposed Darkonite Revamp
#1 :: January 9th, 2012 @ 5:50 PM
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News comments are blowing up and forums are easier to read so...

Proposed Revamp on the left, current on the right

Personally, I hate how the new one almost looks cuddly. It has a personality completely different from the old Darkonite.
The art is much improved, and I do like the back hooves a lot better now. But he needs his ferocity back.


Last Edit by: User not found (1): Ambush 1/09/12 - 5:53:46 pm


#2 :: January 9th, 2012 @ 5:56 PM
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This is the first one I have ever voted on the old pet. I agree that the art looks good, but the expression needs to be changed. There also something that seems off about the entire pet. I can't really name it, but it just look weird to me.

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#3 :: January 9th, 2012 @ 5:57 PM
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Here's what I commented on the News Post:



I think the art certainly looks much more polished, but certain parts of it look off. Personally, I don't care for the pose, it looks a bit to cutesy for me, kinda like how my puppy stands when he wants a treat. Maybe if it was reared up on it hind legs or in a more aggressive stance...

Some examples for poses:
About to pounce, Creeping, On hind legs, or Jumping.

And I think the only other thing I don't like would be the face. If you want to keep the sly grin I think the eyes need to get even thinner, OR I think I'd like his face to be a bit less mischievous and a lot more evil. Maybe barring his teeth or something?

But yeah, that's all I got :P
I love the new art but I think it need to be more fierce c:





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#4 :: January 9th, 2012 @ 5:57 PM
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i agree with you guys. the new one just looks like a soft toy or something :l i like the old one's fierceness and how it kinda looked worn out...but cool? idk how to explain it but i like the old one better this time :I


#5 :: January 9th, 2012 @ 5:59 PM
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I think the body and legs/feet look much, much better. The tuft of fur on the head looks a little tacked on, and I don't like the smile. For the most part, though, the new one is far less awkward than the old.
The front legs could stand to be a little better, but I can't really give proper critique on that.




#6 :: January 9th, 2012 @ 5:59 PM
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I don't think it was really worth the effort tbh... It didn't look that bad to begin with. I really liked the crinkled whiskers and the dark flames at the bottom of the old one's feet which I really felt they should have put onto the new one. The new one's smile looks a little out of place as well. Oh well, I voted for the new one because I think the quality is a little nicer.




#7 :: January 9th, 2012 @ 6:02 PM
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I feel the art has improved and there's certain elements I do quite like, but generally I'm a fan of the old as a whole.

The anatomy seems different and off compared to the old version, and the anatomy (in my opinion) is part of what made the old Darkonite, well Darkonite. I'm just not a fan of the anatomy, loss of personality, and this feeling like I'm almost looking at an entirely new pet. It's cute, but Darkonites don't strike me as a meant-to-be-cute pet.


#8 :: January 9th, 2012 @ 6:02 PM
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This has to be the first common pet revamp that I don't like.

It looks too friendly I liked it a lot better when it had an evil look on it's face.The eyes are too small,the nose is too low,the muzzle looks too low.Also the whiskers are gone and the markings on the legs look too faded.The other new Darkonite colors has whiskers I don't get why the ones in the common revamp are gone.I would like it if the final revamp looked a bit closer to the original.

I voted for the old one,yes the art quality in the new one looks better but it just doesn't seem to fit the Darkonite at all.


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#9 :: January 9th, 2012 @ 6:06 PM
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Several people have said this but it's true for me too, this is the first pet poll ever I have picked the old art over the new. The new art just is not true to the 'type' of the old art (old Darkonite is supposed to be a demon right? I swear I saw that somewhere when I first picked the species for one of my pets.) It's much too cutesy and not at all the 'doesn't give a love' vibe the old Darkonite has.

The new art is nicely done, it's not an issue of quality for me at all, it's just not the same species to me :-/



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#10 :: January 9th, 2012 @ 6:14 PM
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I love the new one a lot. The face is a little off, via eyes and smile but other then that I totally love how you now can tell the paws from the hooves and what not. It's lovely.

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#11 :: January 9th, 2012 @ 6:19 PM
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yeah, also the first pet where I preferred the old one over the revamp. 8( There's just this cartoony and shiny feel to it that doesn't belong on a darkonite. That and my eyeballs are picking fights with the anatomy problems. I do like the crisp and clean feel that it gives off, but for now, I think the shiny and plastic look is overriding it.

but I suppose that's why they're asking crit from the public first.

edit; psst click for redraw
I made a longer post in the news but I figure this pretty much sums up how I would like it to be? kinda rushed because I gotta go so I'm sorry if I sound like a huge butthead or something um
just keep in mind it's based off my own opinions and I am crap with wording things so I thought an image to go with it would work better? I don't know. anyway.
1. hind legs look longer than front legs; its hindquarters are elevated and makes it lean forward unnaturally? not sure actually, just my feeling.
2. head looks like a circle with features pasted on top. skullcap looks kind of flat and plastic; could use some more texture and ridges and less shiny.
3. the smile takes away from its personality and the middle of the mouth line looks blended in. massive pet peeve. makes it look anime-ish and unprofessional.
4. chest could use a bit more shape; make it dip down before you start curving it. a simple curve makes it look kind of stiff.

in any case, I'm really excited to see where this goes and hopefully I'm going to like this pet a little bit more haha.



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Last Edit by: Silhouette 1/09/12 - 6:56:05 pm


#12 :: January 9th, 2012 @ 6:33 PM
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Normally I embrace change but I do not like this in the least. I appreciate the work of the artist but I feel this new form drains every little ounce of personality from the Darkonite. The art itself feels softer than the original and makes it look to... squishy, cartoon-y, cute-sy and to me that is not the Darkonite AT ALL. They are supposed to be DARK not derpy.

Also what happened to the amazing whiskers? Thats one of my favorite features of the Darkonite!


#13 :: January 9th, 2012 @ 6:34 PM
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The only thing I have an issue with is the facial expression. The mouth makes it look like it's smiling rather than sneering, so it looks less malicious than it used to. I think a small change to its mouth could give it a more severe look and would make it look less "cuddly." Narrowing the eyes a bit like someone else suggested might also help.

Poorly photoshopped example:

Original on the left; narrower eyes and changed mouth on the right.


Last Edit by: Speiro 1/09/12 - 6:37:07 pm





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#14 :: January 9th, 2012 @ 7:03 PM
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Quote By @bri:

I feel the art has improved and there's certain elements I do quite like, but generally I'm a fan of the old as a whole.

The anatomy seems different and off compared to the old version, and the anatomy (in my opinion) is part of what made the old Darkonite, well Darkonite. I'm just not a fan of the anatomy, loss of personality, and this feeling like I'm almost looking at an entirely new pet. It's cute, but Darkonites don't strike me as a meant-to-be-cute pet.


these are my sentiments exactly, in much better words than i would have ever used.


#15 :: January 9th, 2012 @ 7:08 PM
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I think this is a case where the revamp is a bit too undercooked, so to speak.

Here are some things that I, as a user and darkonite owner, would like to see for the revamp:

#1. The skin looks kind of odd and shiny. Also, the skull helmet is shiny. Animals aren't shiny. Especially ones from the Dark Side. The old one was not shiny and I think the more normal skin would work better.

#2. The nose looks like an overstuffed plushie (I'm not saying that to be rude, that's just how I'd describe it). It's really...round and kind of prominent.

#3. On the tail furthest from us, on the triangular tip, the revamp one seems to have what looks like coloring outside the lines? Or sketchy lineart. I think it is supposed to be the back of the triangle curling around, but it just doesn't look right.

#4. The foreleg closest to us seems a bit off. Why is it chunky under the elbow but thinner above? That's where the bulk of the muscle is.

#5. The 'socks' on the legs should remain darker, as on the original. I think this is something really simple that could have been left alone.

#6. The hair tuft covering the exposed brain looks off to me for some reason. A bit too shiny perhaps? Maybe too poofy?

Good things on revamp:
-Better back leg
-Better set of 3 spikes coming off cheeks
-Better chest plate with nice tapering off on belly

Good luck to the artist. This revamp does not seem to be winning the crowds over, from what I've seen.


#16 :: January 9th, 2012 @ 7:10 PM
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Quote By @bri:
I feel the art has improved and there's certain elements I do quite like, but generally I'm a fan of the old as a whole.

The anatomy seems different and off compared to the old version, and the anatomy (in my opinion) is part of what made the old Darkonite, well Darkonite. I'm just not a fan of the anatomy, loss of personality, and this feeling like I'm almost looking at an entirely new pet. It's cute, but Darkonites don't strike me as a meant-to-be-cute pet.


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I prefer the old one.



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#17 :: January 9th, 2012 @ 7:11 PM
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The Darkonite is my favorite pet since I have been on Subeta.
The new one is missing the stockyness of the old, they need the dour expression, and the whiskers.
The old markings on legs need to be saved.


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#18 :: January 9th, 2012 @ 7:23 PM
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I'm glad to see that the darkonite is getting attention, but this isn't exactly what I was hoping would happen..
I think I'll just list off the little things I see that bug me:
-the curved snout and nose being so far down
-mouth line fading
-hind end being so high up
-face looks too friendly, and I'm missing the scar and whiskers
-wishing the hooves wouldn't look like they are spread out so much
-I was trying to figure out whether I liked the old paws for the pet, based off of the more current drawings of it, and I think I'd miss the polar bear-like front paws if they were changed. The big squishy toes on the proposed revamp look kind of silly.


The proportions on the Glacier Darkonite are what I'd personally like to see put into the revamp.


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#19 :: January 9th, 2012 @ 7:49 PM
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I think one important thing to keep in mind with this is it's just not having to work off the old to the new pet - it's also having to work off ALL the recolors, most of which won't have to be redrawn (ie glacier, glade, spectrum, etc) but that don't quite match the old pet, either. In the end, a revamp of the common color is going to have to match the redraws more than the old pet - unless everyone wants to see EVERY redraw completely revamped as well!

I know @hagane wanted this polled so she could make a lot of changes to it based off what people wanted, so I don't think anyone should worry yet, haha. Also, she told me in passing that she really accidentally forgot the whiskers, and they're not getting removed from the pet xD so no one needs to worry about the whiskers!

ETA - I did want to add though that I'm not getting the 'cuddly' vibe from it other people seem to be! I think it looks very stocky and muscular, not like.. flabby or fuzzy or cuddly xD But again, a lot of the redraws --



are sleeker and not as stocky, so I think it's something to be expected with the entire species revamp.




Last Edit by: Jessi 1/09/12 - 7:54:07 pm


#20 :: January 9th, 2012 @ 8:28 PM
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I posted in the news, but I'll post here too.
I feel like it's leaned forward too much... like it's tipping forward? And The hair on the head doesn't seem to come out at a "natural" angle. The only other thing is that there seems to be something off near the left side of the face (looking at it, so its right). I think that it seems a little stubby? short? not sure, exactly, maybe I just think the top of the nose is too rounded, kind of like a teddy bear. It's hard to put into words what I think is off about it.

Other than that, I think it's headed in a great direction and I look forward to seeing how it goes. :D I know hagane does amazing work, so I am sure it'll be great :D


#21 :: January 9th, 2012 @ 8:30 PM
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I like the way that the back half of the proposed revamp is done, but I'm not at all liking the front half. I'll just "ditto" what everyone has been saying about whiskers/scar/snout/smile/etc, as well as the colors of the markings being too light. The one thing that really bothers me though, and I'm not sure why this sticks out so much to me, is the way that the front leg looks like it's flexing the front muscle...

The image of the spectrum darkonite that Jessi posted is a perfect example of the way the leg should look... I don't understand the weird bunching/flexing/whatever it is... It almost looks like the leg is bending wrong...


#22 :: January 9th, 2012 @ 8:40 PM
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You're the first person I've seen mentioning that! But that's exactly what I was thinking. @ROCK

As for the revamp, I posted my comments there, and I know hagane will know how to take the good stuff from everyone's comments and critiques!

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#23 :: January 9th, 2012 @ 8:56 PM
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ain't it a fine life


The new one looks too cheerful and not decrepit enough at all.





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#24 :: January 9th, 2012 @ 9:14 PM
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I generally love the new one, but I wish its facial expression was a bit more neutral. Having the smile makes him look much happier, and IDK, I always thought of the Darkonite as a species that was more RAWR like... If that makes any sense?

I don't have a problem with the changes otherwise, and I think an update was soooo needed. :)


#25 :: January 9th, 2012 @ 10:36 PM
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I actually pick pets without the smile because IMO it just isn't natural for animals realizing others would disagree and think totally different. I don't think I would like my Darkonite anymore with a smile, much less that one, something about it looks just strange?

Last Edit by: Straywillow 1/09/12 - 10:43:08 pm


#26 :: January 10th, 2012 @ 1:26 AM
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You know, a few days ago, I was considering getting a Darkonite, but if the revamp passes, I will have to as well. To be honest, the revamp art looks very dated, even more so than the original. It just doesn't look as up to date as the other revamps have been. The revamped Darkonite's art just looks really shabby to me. As it was said before, the back hooves are indeed and improvement, but perhaps the ONLY improvement. I think that, unless another revamp or design is suggested, that the Darkonite would be better off left alone.

That being said, I think this pet could be revamped into something really beautiful, but definitely not in this direction.



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#27 :: January 10th, 2012 @ 2:25 AM
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Quote By Ambush:

Personally, I hate how the new one almost looks cuddly. It has a personality completely different from the old Darkonite.
The art is much improved, and I do like the back hooves a lot better now. But he needs his ferocity back.


All of this, pretty much.

The front paws are too soft and rounded to my eye--they make him look kind of harmless. The old Darko had a good blocky look to it that made it seem rougher, more intimidating. The new boy looks cute and cuddly, probably because the lines are much, much softer. As everyone's already said, that smile just...no. The new Darko looks mischievous, but...I don't associate Darkonites with mischief. To me, they're more grouchy, angry beasties.

The shading is vastly improved, though, and the back hooves are fantastic--I can't stop staring at them aaaaa. But the revamp has such a different attitude and feel to it that it's almost like a completely different pet. I...I really don't like it all that much. I agree that the Darkonite has been in need of an update, but perhaps not this much of a change.


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Last Edit by: TiMESoNG 1/10/12 - 2:25:36 am


#28 :: January 10th, 2012 @ 3:10 AM
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In all honesty I think it needs a revamp at all
but since the PTB feel it needs one it will get one whether it needs one or not...

The new art is fine of course it just doesn't really feel like a Darkonite at all to me. The legs need to be a bit bulkier and something about the face seems off to me (not quite the eyes or the missing whiskers, I can't put my finger on it.) Something about the snout seems a little softer maybe? I'm not sure.


I'd like the legs more like the Reborn Darkonite which I think captures it's essence the best, or at least not as bent.

I do however like most of the back-side of it, the tails, spikes and hooved leg are very well done and of course gorgeous art!



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#29 :: January 10th, 2012 @ 4:48 AM
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I think the new art is a ton better and looks much more in sync with other pets.

But a few things that bug me:

I think the eyes would be better if they were narrower or the iris was bigger
I think a smaller mouth, or a more scowling mouth would keep the old personality better.
I'd also like it if the lame markings were a bit darker.


#30 :: January 10th, 2012 @ 8:32 AM
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The main thing that bothered me on the new one was the nose area. After coming into this board, I think it's actually the smile that's throwing off that whole area for me.

However, I've never really liked the old darkonite, so I ended up voting the new one.


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#31 :: January 10th, 2012 @ 12:49 PM
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I've already posted my comments in the news, but I wanted to emphasize the facial expression, attitude of this pet. The darkonite simply should not be a happy or cute and cuddly pet. I've noted a trend to make the revamp pets both happier and cuddlier, but that just doesn't work with the darkonite. I chose to own a darkonite pet because of its disgruntled look. I have a mix of pets, some cute, some fiercer and I really appreciate the opportunity to have different personalities in my pets. By giving it a smile, even a mischievous one, it becomes like every other pet on the site and completely loses its uniqueness. The poor thing is banged up and broken, it should be disgruntled.


#32 :: January 10th, 2012 @ 7:11 PM
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Like many others have stated i think that the art in general is loads better,
but my issue is with the face. It just feels too happy to me.

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#33 :: January 10th, 2012 @ 8:34 PM
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I have to agree with the general opinion. The quality of the art is vastly improved, but the expression is just too far off the original pet. I think that the smile and the large eyes with the small pupils doesn't really display the original aspects of the pet.


#34 :: January 11th, 2012 @ 12:13 AM
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Not sure I should post this here because wow I'm probably biased (no), but here goes anyways. (and pinging @hagane because I was going to send her this through sMail and then... weh, I don't know how I feel about this.)

First time I ever voted for the old one, for a few reasons. The first thing that jumped out, to me, as the forelegs. They seem oddly proportioned; I /see/ what the Hagane was trying to do (keeping the old one's proportions), but in this case, the old Darko was so highly stylized I think you can hardly count the forelegs as refference material. It translates really, really strangely to Hagane's style.

The second thing that hit me was how stiff the new revamp looked. You will very, very rarely see (if ever) any canine/feline/bovine/caprid holding their head RIGHT up to their shoulders. While I understand this is also something that is reminiscent of the old version, it simply doesn't do well in this new style. Tbh, moving the head to the left by a few pixels would do the trick I think? I wasn't suggesting giving it an actual LONG NECK fgdkjdgd The head itself could probably use to be a little bigger, as well.

The third thing for me, I think, is the way the hind leg is sprawled out? It almost looks like it's supposed to be in profile view, while the hoof and rest of the body suggest otherwise. Some shortening/slight perspective would probably fix this!

Also, this is a stretch, but a worthwhile critique nonetheless, I think, but it's about those forelegs. Just like @Jessi said herself, they're meant to be slender. Well, at least... more slender than about muscles, and I can see you tried to define some muscles of those forelegs. While I know you are very capable of it, I don't think the darkonites are the right pet to implement those on! (ok I know they got to have muscles SOMEWHERE but they're standing out a lot more on your common revamp than they do on your own reborn revamp!)

Overall, I think a bit of the proportion fun that was originally almost a character trait to the darkonites has be lost (mostly the thick parts VS the thin parts had been diluted) is gone. The tails have almost the same thickness all over their length, the paws are considerably smaller, and the head is a lot smaller as well. I feel like the attempt at making this particular pet more realistic isn't something that should necessarily be applied to every pet, seeing as they can fit in the Subeta style with a bit more of a exaggerated look.

I hope I didn't come off as harsh-- I know Hagane is a good artist, and I've known her quality of work for a long time now... I mean, come one, this is from the girl who had to redo the feli revamp three times :P




#35 :: January 11th, 2012 @ 6:53 AM
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Wow, first time i've seen the old version beating the new one in the polls! I personally agree with the above statements. It needs it's old ferocity back, but the art is improved. I voted for the old version.

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#36 :: January 11th, 2012 @ 8:51 AM
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Going with my statement in the news, I agree on the facial expression. I think the smile is a bit out of place and that the muzzle is a but too plump.

TBQH I think the muzzle is too plump on the reborn too but we didn't get to give feedback on that one. XD





#37 :: January 12th, 2012 @ 12:03 PM
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The only thing I really liked about the revamp was the fact that I finally realised the back feet were hooves - I hadn't noticed it until I saw it XD I never normally vote for the old pets but I definitely did this time, the new Darkonite just looks way too cuddly, no offense to the artist, but I just wouldn't want that as a pet and I do love some Darkonites and have considered getting them a lot.
EDIT: Just looked up at the pictures again and I have to say I prefer the eyes on the older one because you can see the red brighter and that makes it look more evil.


Last Edit by: User not found (1): AllieLovesAJ 1/12/12 - 12:08:15 pm


#38 :: January 12th, 2012 @ 1:02 PM
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I agree with most of what has already been said. I would like to add that I feel that the toes on the paws are a little "plump", the flatter toes in the original I think fit with the body better and don't draw so much attention to themselves.




#39 :: January 12th, 2012 @ 1:47 PM
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@Silhouette

YESSS! That is a perfect redraw! It looks amazing. It has the same attitude and face (I don't mean you copied the face, I just mean it's definitely recognizable as a darkonite) as the old one with a better proportioned body. Bravo C:



#40 :: January 19th, 2012 @ 12:38 PM
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The new art is certianly an improvement but I have to agree with you about the expression. It really has lost a lot of the ferocity of the older version and it looks too friendly. It might also help if they brought out the colour of the iris a little bit more since it doesn't stand out enough for me.

@Speiro The slight changes to the face in your version are a huge improvement.

Hagane did a wonderful job though, in bringing the art up to date. I think the pose and everything is fine personally, and the shading is lovely.