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Does having Autism, Aspergers and the like excuse you from been bad tempered?
| #1 :: June 22nd, 2012 @ 10:10 AM | |
 Kiliis a Time Lord    1,467 Posts 473 Achievements  
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I personally dont think it does. (prepare your self for armature essay in 3 2 1...)
My brother has ASD, Autistic Spectrum Disorder. He is not full blown autistic, but is far from been "normal" (I use that term lightly) My brother is 16 and is currently doing his GCSE's. In fact his last exam was today. He has done no revision on his own at all. All the time he has is spent "hacking" his playstation and trying to cheat on Call of Duty. Needless to say, when other are cheating and god modding and freezing his playstation, this annoys him to no end. Everyday I have to put up with his swearing, shouting and banging everything. The cats are terrified when he starts shouting, which in turn makes me shout to tell him to shut up, which makes him more angry. Then he goes downstairs and had a cigarette. Me and my mum has suspected he might have started doing weed. My mum haaaaates drugs. She has known many people who done drugs and is now dead and even my auntie has been struggling with drugs for over 20 years now. Its not the weed that upsets her as such, but 9 times out of 10 (a figure of speech, not actual fact) people who has done weed on a regular basis move onto more dangerous drugs. All this anger and frustration, my brother blames the ASD. I am well aware that people with ASD struggle to cope with frustrating situations. I know they need to release this frustration. But they can not go through life saying horrible things and then blaming their mental illness. They cant get a job and insult everyone and then bugger off as they please. In short my brother is irresponsible and lazy. We have tried everything, and I mean that, to build his confidence (he was bullied a lot in primary school, and the teachers in primary school said he was a normal child and badly behaved, blamed my mum and when he was finally diagnosed with ASD, spent the money meant for him on things for the school.) My brother (ironically named Damian) is destructive, angry, and lazy. But he can be a good person. When he is away from the playstaion, he calms down and is easy to talk to and will talk to me. Therefore I do not think it is his ASD (as such) that annoys him with the playstation. Its the playstation itself. He cant take critism well, and anything that even sounds like a dig at him, he takes personal. Recently I watched a documentary about a growing new type of depression, called "New type depression". Yea.. Basically it seems like if my brother got a job, he would fall into this "new type depression". I dont really like it been called a depression as such, its a bit controversial. Here is a quick definition of new type depression, Quote: Can't work but can do hobbies and travel... increasing numbers of young people these days are experiencing depression in new ways. Others tend to see this "new-style" depression as sheer laziness and there is no established way to treat it, so both employers and medical institutions are struggling to respond.Taken from synopsis of the documentary I watched, you too can watch the documentary here. Its really interesting. And you can read about it here. So my main question here is, "Can mental illness excuse extreme anger and laziness?" |
| #2 :: June 22nd, 2012 @ 11:03 AM | |
 kumoskunkLe Extreme Spammer  3,377 Posts 386 Achievements |
 i don't think it's an excuse. i have Aspergers, and do get very tempermental, stressed out, and frustrated easily, but i'm on some mild anti-anxiety medication, and when i take them, i'm fine. not saying i don't get stressed out, just not to the point where i'd become almost violent. maybe medication doesn't work for everyone, but i feel it is a way to at least to help, and therefore shouldn't be used as an excuse for anger or laziness. 
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| #3 :: June 22nd, 2012 @ 2:04 PM | |
| Kaifoxdemon Only has Room for One  17 Posts 133 Achievements |
 My little brother, who is 10, is only one point onto the autistic spectrum. He has gigantic bouts of rage that are completely uncontrollable. I don't quite think that mental illness can 'excuse' the rage and lack of motivation, but I do think it can be held somewhat accountable for it. Was he ever like this before? To be honest, I think puberty might have a bit of play in this behavior as well...
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| #4 :: June 22nd, 2012 @ 5:53 PM | |
| Kili is a Time Lord 1,467 Posts 473 Achievements |
@Kaifoxdemon
Thanks for your input, it's hard as an older sibling to cope. I struggled when we was growing up to accept him and accept that my mum was spending so much time with him. As I grew older I realised that I was been unfair, and maybe a bit selfish. He has always had little obsessions that annoy him. When he was younger it would have been his obsession with guns. He idolised killing things. Luckily the only things he killed where bugs ( but I always felt terrible for the bugs) but I would rather bugs than our pets. When he was really young he killed my pet mouse. He just squeezed it too much and then put it on my windowsill. He was like 4 or 5? Didn't understand he was hurting it, he just didn't want it to run out of his hands. But I really laid into him and ignored him for the day. When he was younger, he didn't swear as much but was very violent. Now it's all bark but no bite, although he has hit me sometimes it's not as bad as it used to. Oh he would beat me up when mum want looking and before he didn't leave a mark she never believed me. Annoying >__< |
| #5 :: June 22nd, 2012 @ 10:10 PM | |
| War is Darksided!  791 Posts 346 Achievements |
No stop to my spreading, I don't think it does personally. My brother was autistic and my father worked hard to make him use manners/table manners/ be respectable. I mean, he still had violent outbursts... but we didn't dismiss them. Rather, we were sympathetic to the situation. We understood why he was acting out the way he was, but still took proper corrective measures. And he always ended up coming back later to apologize. He understood what he did was wrong. ^^ Edit: My brother was older too! Two years older than me, haha. I'm the youngest. Enter vicious circles, Last Edit by: User not found (1): Dh00m 6/22/12 - 10:12:29 pm
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| #6 :: June 23rd, 2012 @ 12:41 AM | |
| MurasakiDoku Newbie  2 Posts 107 Achievements |
I think the line between "it's the disorder" and "it's a behavioral problem" can get so blurry it doesn't look like a line anymore...
I'd say that if I had to put down a definition, it would be "Does this behavior actively hurt others or oneself?" Because then, it definitely needs to stop. Quote By @Sandshrew: Now it's all bark but no bite, although he has hit me sometimes it's not as bad as it used to. If it's getting better, it might be something he (or the community/family) can work on. The rage might be an uncontrollable factor of his ASD, but perhaps with enough persistence the violence may be something he can get a handle on. I think the same might be said for his "laziness", to teach him the importance of hard work...but I know trying to take something that supplies a level of comfort (the Playstation) from someone who has ASD can cause an episode...
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| #7 :: June 25th, 2012 @ 4:45 PM | |
| Nidoqueen is Darksided!  219 Posts 351 Achievements |
@Sandshrew
This is quite a debate. I think the answer I have come up with, is that it depends on the severity of the disorder. To me, your brother sounds like a perfectly functional person, just with a behavioral problem. I feel like if he were to go to anger management classes and counselling that it would help him a lot. I don't think a mental illness should excuse either anger or laziness. If the person is unable to do something because of their anger, they should seek help. If the person is just plain lazy, then I don't think having a mental illness excuses that either. At 16 years old, most teenagers can be lazy (I know I was!), so maybe it's just a part of his age. I don't think anyone should blame it on his disorder. It's sad to hear you say he hits you and treats you badly. I don't really have advice for this, other than to avoid him if your mom is out or he gets into an angry episode. But I do hope it stops soon.
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| #8 :: June 29th, 2012 @ 1:58 AM | |
| bro Posting Machine v2  140 Posts 95 Achievements |
Very interesting discussion here. First of all, I commend you for coping with all of this. Especially the physical abuse & pet mouse... I don't know about you, but that would be pretty traumatic for me. Now... I don't think mental illness is an excuse for anything. It simply can't be, especially in the society we've created; there's almost no sympathy or "breaks" for people with mental illnesses. Fact, it DOES make things a helluva lot harder. It is also very easy to blame any negative trait on the disorder, even when it's not necessarily true to the extent that some people make it to be. My follow-up question would be... Does physical illness excuse laziness, anger, or general negativity? Why (or how) does this differ mental illnesses? p.s. thanks for interesting documentary. I love learning about these sort of things.
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| #9 :: July 4th, 2012 @ 2:49 PM | |
| Lypsyl Is a Master Chef!  9,527 Posts 1,248 Achievements |
Its not an excuse. It is a explanation, and that's important because once you understand where a behaviour is coming from you can do things to ameliorate that behaviour.
Using your brother as an example, he has frustration issues as a result of his mental illness. So he needs to learn what are acceptable ways to deal with frustration, and which are unacceptable. He can learn that in spite of his illness. If he simply chooses not to address the issues, and blame the illness, then he needs to deal with the consequences of his actions. If, on the other hand, he is sincerely working on changing his behaviours, then he deserves a little slack at the beginning of the process because its likely to be very difficult for him to change habits that have been 'successful' for him so far. From the sounds of it your brother is making excuses and not working at fixing what he can within his limitations.
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| #10 :: July 4th, 2012 @ 6:29 PM | |
| PURRr Blabbermouth  702 Posts 78 Achievements |
My brother is autistic spectrum (fully functional) Basically, he was brought up to be "different" and "special" and was treated as such, now that he is an adult he uses it as an excuse to sit at 20 years old in his mothers house and play video games all day. He sexually, verbally, and physically abused me for years and got away with it because he was "different". He makes excuses for everything. He can't finish mowing the lawn because his hands hurt, he can't do the dishes because there's food stuck to them, he cant flush the toilet because it's a waste of time. He has been to probably 20 schools and leaves within days because "its not good for me to be around kids like that", "someone was mean to me", etc. This brings up a whole other issue, but it still remains on the topic of excuses and the fact that I think it's wrong people are made to think they are different and are held at different standards, because it absolutely changed my brother for the worst. I also don't believe any kind of mental illness excuses ANYONE from ANYTHING. For instance, say someone has bipolar disorder. This absolutely does not excuse them from blowing up at anyone, because the person did not deserve it. Do I believe they should be dealt with differently? Yes, but I do not believe it's excuseable.
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| #11 :: July 5th, 2012 @ 3:26 AM | |
| Ven is a Skilled Hooker  2,025 Posts 374 Achievements |
He doesn't scream at people on PSN (but I do think almost every young male does that. I mean seriously live video game networks, especially cooperative shooters, are places where a bunch teenage boys can come together and scream sexist/homophobic profanity at each other, so that your brother is doing that...really...he's not the only douchebag doing that), but any ways my brother won't do jack crap. He says he's depressed a lot and he's failed a bunch of classes and just won't go to school half the time. He hangs out with his friend and is social and seems to like his hobbies (video games, roleplaying) but won't do jack crap when it comes to work. We know he's capable of doing well in school (he has tested fairly intelligent, also dad's a successful engineer and I go to a top-tier college, so the ability to do crap and do crap well is in the family), he just refuses to. He has a paper to do this summer...he can pass his english class if he does it, obviously it was due before school ended, but I highly doubt that kid will do his paper. We've taken him to counseling...even admitted him to a psyche ward for a while and he stays pretty much the same. We've tested him for ADD/etc. and he's a normal kid, just doesn't do anything. He was also bullied in grade school and stuff. But yeah. Any ways I think the depression/not doing stuff is a bigger problem then the screaming at people on the playstation. And I don't think that's caused by any disorder because god have you any idea some of the crap they've said. I saw this whole blog by this woman who would play call of duty online or a similar game and would just record all the sexist bullcrap they threw at her, and let me tell you, it's not pretty. So sure it isn't a good thing, but it isn't exactly news either. I also don't think weed would cause that. As far as I know, it makes people mellow and lazy, not..violent. Alcohol causes violence more, I believe. Last Edit by:
Ven 7/05/12 - 3:28:06 am
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| #12 :: July 17th, 2012 @ 5:17 AM | |
| Unrequited Is Lonely  3,596 Posts 206 Achievements |
 @Sandshrew I don't think so, really. There was a boy, a man, I suppose, but I've known him FOREVER, who went to my church until recently. He was angry and violent and abusive and blamed his autism, saying he wasn't capable. But when our fathers (his and mine) sat him down and told him to either do the work or face consequences, he decided all of a sudden it wasn't so hard. So I think maybe he was accustomed to coasting because of his illness and when somebody made him behave like an adult, he didn't like being forced to work. Some of it is all in your head. Well, not yours, but it WAS all in Steven's...anyway... Yeah, I think it's a horrible excuse. 
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| #13 :: July 19th, 2012 @ 12:09 PM | |
| Kili is a Time Lord 1,467 Posts 473 Achievements |
Its quite interesting that here on subeta, you understand that the mental illness can not be an excuse.
I wrote a blog on another website and was instantly targeted by two older men. It must have been the way I wrote it. It was a combination of my emotions and thoughts about my current life which is pretty tough. They completely misunderstood what I was writing about and assumed my brother was depressed, that it was caused by me. That I did not understand his emotions and feelings and that I apparently hated my brother and called his autism disgusting. Both these men seemed to be autistic themselves. I tried to apologize to them in case I upset them, but one in particular (who has been reported) insisted on telling me I was wrong and denying my brother the right to health care. I reported him as he was calling me all sorts of not nice things. I could understand one or two insults, but in every sentence he wrote it was bashing me. I find this very interesting and I would like to know others opinions on this. Others who are autistic themselves as I feel they can be the only ones who can give me the "best" opinion on this matter as they can understand and relate to these two individuals. It actually upset me a lot, did this situation. I just needed to let some steam off and suddenly Im been targeted and subjected to anonymous hate. It was not a pleasant experience to say the least... |
| #14 :: July 30th, 2012 @ 1:52 AM | |
| cain is a Time Lord  577 Posts 292 Achievements |
 I have various spectrum-scale bits of autism under my belt that I can thank my family for. It's the reason I can't handwrite properly (thanks, dysgraphia you dog.) but also the reason I can come up with a lot of crap nobody else seems able to come up with, for which I'm thankful for. I'm about as socially awkward as they come, the bad kind, the kind where you start talking to me, think I'm fine, and then I talk too long or go off on a tangent and suddenly my pleasant conversation becomes awkward and people stop wanting to talk to me, for understandable reasons. I try to remedy that, to keep myself in check, and it works - mostly. I have a big problem with body language, for instance. Obvious stuff I can get straight away, but subtle things? A shift here, a change of tone there. That sort of thing goes right over my head unless I know specifically what I'm looking for. And it's caused no end of problems. Does this mean I can flip a table and then blame my autism? Hell no. I've gotten angry and thrown tantrums plenty of times in the past. I used to do it all the time in school. Did my autism play a part in it? Quite likely. Would it have been right for me to blame my autism for me acting like that? No. It would not. Artwork done by my darling |
| #15 :: July 31st, 2012 @ 10:16 PM | |
| Haywood is a Mirage  340 Posts 136 Achievements |
it's more of an explanation, rather than an excuse. not only have i done studies in autism, but i've been a diagnosed aspie since i was 3. i still have meltdowns despite being on medication - those are not going to go away. having a reason doesn't make it okay per se, but it can calm people down to hear that you're not having a psychotic episode or something more "abnormal" (for you).
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| #16 :: August 3rd, 2012 @ 12:25 PM | |
| Janun is a Mirage  110 Posts 551 Achievements |
No.
However, you must understand that you can't communicate with autistic people the same you can with neurotypicals. I have asperger's and I can't read body langauge, despite my attempts to learn. Sarcasm may be lost on me, or I might assume you're joking when you're not. It's like the internet, but no smilies to help. My sister, who also has asperger's, would get meltdowns and people would assume she's a psychopath. In reality, she was getting too many irritants from her surroundings and was unable to cope or express her discomfort in any other way. After lifelong therapy and practical training on the subject, she's been more succesfull in life than I. I was only diagnosed as an adult, though we have the same syndrome, our symptoms and co-morbid conditions differ greatly. She's always been more sociable and would express negative feelings through the aforementioned meltdowns, whereas I will withdraw into myself and away from people, possibly hiding under a blanket and having panic and anxiety attacks. I fell below the radar. As you may have guessed, both of us tend to play it safe and make sure we are always on our best behaviour and possibly on our toes in case we need to flee the situation to have our meltdowns in peace. It just ook me longer to learn because I had to do it on my own and books aren't the best teacher. It takes mutual respect and clear communication, but it can be done.
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| #17 :: August 6th, 2012 @ 10:59 PM | |
| chinacat Gets Around  3,194 Posts 641 Achievements |
Janun pointed out, but it can't be used as an excuse for temperament issues all of the time.My nephew is five, and he's on the high-functioning side of the spectrum. His communications are around that of a three year old, whereas his intelligence and understanding/comprehension is at the level of someone almost in middle school. It's quite a stretch - and he does have bouts of anger that just get extremely hard to handle. He's bruised and severely injured myself and his caretaker (which is my mother in law, currently) multiple times - almost to the point where she's lost custody of him for her 'inability to handle him'. She constantly uses the excuse, 'well, he is autistic!' - and though I can understand that he's autistic and needs a set schedule, time to prepare for visitors and changes, etc - that DOES NOT mean he has an excuse to beat me or others up, throw temper tantrums that are simply out of control, or hurt himself out of anger. I believe there are ways around it, ways to get around the lack of communication and behavioral monitoring. With Dante, I can find a way to communicate to him appealing to his physical "triggers" so to speak - giving him a super tight hug, squeezing his hands/feet, etc. - and that sets off a "sensor" in his head somewhere that tells him to calm down. Someone else with an autistic friend/family member or someone who acts this way themselves will understand better than I can explain it. That works better than saying, "Dante, stop!" Or yelling/screaming/punishing him like you would a typical child. Not everyone understands this, and with my mother-in-law the tantrums simply go unpunished and stated as an 'uncontrollable autistic meltdown' - and because of that attitude, I figure most people who can't control their spectrum children have to put some of (if not all of) the blame on laziness and failure to experiment.
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| #18 :: August 11th, 2012 @ 9:33 PM | |
| Nanaki Is a Survivor  386 Posts 265 Achievements |
I can't really add much that hasn't been said already, but I know a few people on several parts of the autism spectrum, myself included. Out of the three of us, we all cope differently to environmental stresses and social situations. I can't fully speak for the others, but I think the ones prone to violent outbursts would be myself and my friend's younger brother who is very low functioning.
Personally, I veer towards more violence against myself when things get difficult and I feel like everything is my fault. However, my problem was most likely my depression interacting with my autism, making everything harder to deal with. Although, I do remember acting out a lot as a child, but I was also being severely bullied at the time (beaten black and blue every day), so fighting back ended up being my only defense. Anyways, I'm rambling on. What I wanted to get at was I don't think autism is an excuse for behavioral issues, but it can be an explanation. But I also think that once you have that explanation and possibly something that it stems from (in my case, depression + autism = violent suicidal tendencies), then you should seek some kind of help. For me, I just take my medication for depression every day, and I'm back to being more or less normal, if rather quirky.
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| #19 :: November 2nd, 2012 @ 6:19 PM | |
| Thenos Posting Machine  83 Posts 42 Achievements |
@Nanaki
I have ASD but mine is quit high functioning. Yes, that poses difficulties, but we learn to live with it. My school has an club for people with aspergus or a high functioning autism. I have started a topic on Chit-chat about autism. You may want to join that conversation and look at the tip of coping with ASD. Although ASD makes things harder, raging is no excuse. I used to fuss a lot and also, people say that I think deeply, which may be a part of the spectrum.
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| #20 :: November 2nd, 2012 @ 6:21 PM | |
| Rattata is a Time Lord  4,605 Posts 611 Achievements |
  I don't think so. I was diagnosed with Asperger's as a kid (although it's so over-diagnosed, who knows if I actually have it) and I do have a terrible temper. I don't think Asperger's (if I do have it) is an excuse. Even if it's more challenging, people with Asperger's/Autism need to learn to control their behaviour. It's not impossible, as some people believe it is. It just takes more effort. To be honest, the whole, "I can't help it, I have ____" seems more like laziness on their part. * * * * * * I saw the constellations reveal themselves one star at a time.
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| #21 :: November 26th, 2012 @ 12:19 PM | |
| Saerise Only has Room for One  14 Posts 119 Achievements |
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| #22 :: January 8th @ 11:58 PM | |
| Estaniul Posting Machine v2  145 Posts 334 Achievements |
Nah. honestly, there are plenty of mental disorders that make it more LIKELY for an individual to behave "badly" in a situation, but unless the symptoms are so severe that the person can't control their behavior in general, I don't think it really counts as an excuse. It's like saying there's no way to change that behavior, when we already know that behavior therapy actually CAN help some individuals modify their behavior.
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