Free Gift: An Idiots Guide to Constructive Criticism
Posted by 
SubetaTeam
Peach
Quote by @Qii:
This.TARGETING NOT ALLOWED....unless we do it
This behaviour is absolutely disgusting and unprofessional. Subeta, don't expect to receive another donation from me.
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FLUX
@Keith@alice
So I’m guessing this is the staff’s mature response to several people, myself included. You probably expected everyone to be all ‘omg that’s me told.’ But to be honest all you have shown me is that you are as unprofessional as I was saying. Which I’m glad many people have said already in response to this gift.
So yes, I posted a thread in B+C because I was upset I had received what I considered to be incredibly unprofessional mail from a staff member. Once someone pointed out itcould be considered targeting as you could find out artists on SubetaLodge/HQ I took my post down barely five minutes after it went up just to be safe within the rules. I did not take it down because I was ‘taken down a peg’ as users seem to think on the thread. Indeed, when I posted it to be locked I didn’t even check back until the next day because I had received comments/mails from multiple users in SUPPORT of what I had said. Here’s a quote from a mail someone sent me:
So think I’m a bitch if you want, my friends and people who have seen me around know otherwise. Oh and place your bets now on what fake reason I’ll be frozen for in a weeks time.
THANK YOU to the users who mailed me and those who have posted here in support of what is clearly behaviour you would not expect from staff members.
So I’m guessing this is the staff’s mature response to several people, myself included. You probably expected everyone to be all ‘omg that’s me told.’ But to be honest all you have shown me is that you are as unprofessional as I was saying. Which I’m glad many people have said already in response to this gift.
So yes, I posted a thread in B+C because I was upset I had received what I considered to be incredibly unprofessional mail from a staff member. Once someone pointed out itcould be considered targeting as you could find out artists on SubetaLodge/HQ I took my post down barely five minutes after it went up just to be safe within the rules. I did not take it down because I was ‘taken down a peg’ as users seem to think on the thread. Indeed, when I posted it to be locked I didn’t even check back until the next day because I had received comments/mails from multiple users in SUPPORT of what I had said. Here’s a quote from a mail someone sent me:
Quote:
Etc. I still stand by what I said as yes what I posted could be taken as hurtful but…so what? It is an artists job to make art for the site, I don’t have to like it and I certainly don’t have to critique it either. I think this is something people get so worked up over without realising it’s not something we have to do. If she had ASKED for it to be crititqued and I said ‘oh it’s rubbish’ then yes that is me being extremely rude and unhelpful. But I’m not REQUIRED to critique, I’m allowed to just think something isn’t nice. Without being targeted by a staff member. When I received the mail my first thought was “What the…seriously?”“I just wanted to let you know to not feel like it's just you staff are being assholes to for giving feedback.
I've been fighting with several staffers for the better part of a week now because they don't like me to give feedback (good or bad lol because either way I'm being selfish apparently) that hurts their fragile egos.
I honestly thought the free gift was a jab at me, because XXXX is one of the main ones who's been up my ass.”
So think I’m a bitch if you want, my friends and people who have seen me around know otherwise. Oh and place your bets now on what fake reason I’ll be frozen for in a weeks time.
THANK YOU to the users who mailed me and those who have posted here in support of what is clearly behaviour you would not expect from staff members.
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Zekumi
Just on the subject of targeting, to be fair to the staff, the only reason I was able to find the source of this item's reference was from the comments here; I doubt I'd have had found it if some of the users hadn't mentioned the specific board it was from.
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wraith
Stay classy, Subeta.
Good to know proffessionalism is a high priority here, and everything.
Good to know proffessionalism is a high priority here, and everything.
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Capybara
Yes, both sides handled this poorly, but all the sarcastic/mean comments towards the staff(and the sit itself) only serve to exacerbate the situation, and show why we need an item like this in the first place.
Come on, you guys.
Come on, you guys.
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Flight
Just wow. Badly phrased crit from a user should not spiral into this. But this... oh wait this is subeta. Professionalism is left at the log in screen.
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RoseDragonfire
@Nuru
Well, in all honesty, I felt the initial critique didn't follow the definition of constructive at all, and I would have personally been offended if it had been said to me. Those were in no way GOOD points made. :(
All in all, BOTH SIDES were in the wrong, which is what I felt in the first place. I tried to imagine both point of views, and I honestly didn't think the staff letter was threatening, though I understand the awkward part. This wouldn't have blown up further though if the thread hadn't been created.
Once again, it's a spiral of aggression, and I think everyone needed to take a step back. Also, there is a contradiction in the bullying argument. Customers/Users do indeed have a position of power over staff, as stated by several other users in this thread. It balances things out. Yes, the staff member has the ability to do something like post a notice, but the user can make threads, and as we've seen, is just as powerful. In this situation, the abuse of power that truly could have been made, is if the staff had frozen her account, or something of the like. Thankfully, it did not.
I like that you have a good standpoint regardless of our different turnouts.
I honestly don't think a side should be taken at all, and I know it may seem I'm on the side of the staff, I'm not. Both were WRONG. Neither side did the grown up thing. However, I don't think it's right to expect the staff to be any less human that the user in the course of making a mistake. That is what upsets me about this. :(
Well, in all honesty, I felt the initial critique didn't follow the definition of constructive at all, and I would have personally been offended if it had been said to me. Those were in no way GOOD points made. :(
All in all, BOTH SIDES were in the wrong, which is what I felt in the first place. I tried to imagine both point of views, and I honestly didn't think the staff letter was threatening, though I understand the awkward part. This wouldn't have blown up further though if the thread hadn't been created.
Once again, it's a spiral of aggression, and I think everyone needed to take a step back. Also, there is a contradiction in the bullying argument. Customers/Users do indeed have a position of power over staff, as stated by several other users in this thread. It balances things out. Yes, the staff member has the ability to do something like post a notice, but the user can make threads, and as we've seen, is just as powerful. In this situation, the abuse of power that truly could have been made, is if the staff had frozen her account, or something of the like. Thankfully, it did not.
I like that you have a good standpoint regardless of our different turnouts.
I honestly don't think a side should be taken at all, and I know it may seem I'm on the side of the staff, I'm not. Both were WRONG. Neither side did the grown up thing. However, I don't think it's right to expect the staff to be any less human that the user in the course of making a mistake. That is what upsets me about this. :(
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PUNK
So, I read the thread that this book was aimed at. I feel the OP was in the wrong and posted their opinion in a rude manner. I also feel it's been rather blown out of proportion, and this is now in fact breaking the very rule that we are expected to obey, regarding targeting. But, being the total hypocrite that I am, I took the free book AND read it to my pet ^^
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Stitch
@Nuru
The Subeta staff are hardly ever capable of realizing when they have stepped over the line. If they realize they have, their usual response is either dripping with sarcasm, or throw free things at people and hope all is forgiven.
The staff had no right to do it. If they were going to do it, they should have waited for it to go down a few pages before even putting it up here.
But, Subeta was never known for tact. They are more known for throwing fits when called out on things.
The Subeta staff are hardly ever capable of realizing when they have stepped over the line. If they realize they have, their usual response is either dripping with sarcasm, or throw free things at people and hope all is forgiven.
The staff had no right to do it. If they were going to do it, they should have waited for it to go down a few pages before even putting it up here.
But, Subeta was never known for tact. They are more known for throwing fits when called out on things.
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Nuru
@ RoseDragonfire
I agree and yet I don't. I feel it as cyber bullying because the staff are in a position of power while this user ISN'T. Instead of being mature and adult like you would expect staff to be they went "I see your ante and raise you DOUBLE, because we CAN". The user may have overreacted by making the post they did.
I honestly feel the artist had overreacted first, however. The user didn't just say "oh its crap" they said they didn't like it and GAVE A GOOD EXPLANATION for not liking it (technically they followed correct criticism just might have picked ONE harsh word wrong). There was no call for contacting this user AT. ALL.(Imho). It set a mood of awkward defensiveness.
Think of it as if it happened to you? You posted a critique on a thread DEDICATED to critique and then suddenly a GM is contacting you acting like you had no business critiquing their art... in a critique thread... on a topic dedicated to that specific set in question. :| I dunno about you but I'd feel seriously THREATENED by the gesture and they responded accordingly. They tried deleting it after calming down but then people just re-posted it anyway.
To me, I see it as they're capable of seeing when they may have overreacted but staff aren't?
I agree and yet I don't. I feel it as cyber bullying because the staff are in a position of power while this user ISN'T. Instead of being mature and adult like you would expect staff to be they went "I see your ante and raise you DOUBLE, because we CAN". The user may have overreacted by making the post they did.
I honestly feel the artist had overreacted first, however. The user didn't just say "oh its crap" they said they didn't like it and GAVE A GOOD EXPLANATION for not liking it (technically they followed correct criticism just might have picked ONE harsh word wrong). There was no call for contacting this user AT. ALL.(Imho). It set a mood of awkward defensiveness.
Think of it as if it happened to you? You posted a critique on a thread DEDICATED to critique and then suddenly a GM is contacting you acting like you had no business critiquing their art... in a critique thread... on a topic dedicated to that specific set in question. :| I dunno about you but I'd feel seriously THREATENED by the gesture and they responded accordingly. They tried deleting it after calming down but then people just re-posted it anyway.
To me, I see it as they're capable of seeing when they may have overreacted but staff aren't?
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Orchipea
I'll agree that the timing of this is a smack in the face to the user who posted the thread, and when they have already been put in their place enough to delete the contents of their post, it seems like overkill. The overall message is a good one, but probably not handled correctly. I know that in the anonimity of the Internet it is really easy to overlook the fact that the people you are communicating with have feelings, and we need to be considerate of that EVERY TIME we post something. And this is something that both staff and all users should think about before they hit the button that sends their thoughts into the world.
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RoseDragonfire
You know, this wouldn't have been considering targeting if the thread had been deleted instead of locked, or if human curiosity wasn't an issue. While I agree that this was NOT handled appropriately by staff, I am still in the belief that the particular person that started this, regardless of being a paid user, could have taken this better as well in the first place.
I don't agree with Nuru that the staff are cyber bullies. From what I gather, it looks like someone was fed up with being the victim of cyber bullies for so long. No HUMAN, staff included, can take large amounts of unhelpful, and down right cruel, criticisms. You can only ignore hurtful things for so long. I'm sorry, but if the user, or any user that has said things similar in the past, says those things that had been said, there was NO WAY to see that as something other than meaning to be hurtful.
The things that were said, and "I don't like it" are not the same things at all. Even an unhelpful "I don't like it" would have been MUCH better. People should remember that the staff is human, and since the particular staff in question is an artist, I imagine that nothing hurts more that to have users on YOUR site ridicule something you've worked very hard to present to them.
So yes, the staff in particular blew up a little, and yes the user in question was one of, likely, many. In the end, a line was made, and I think all should know by now that you shouldn't cross it. Both sides have efficiently blown up, and I think it should likely be left alone now. I seriously hope people don't pester the user, since they are human too. However, I seriously hope people don't do as some have been doing, and attack the staff. I really don't see why staff should have to act like robots. We are all human, and as such, can get hurt. We are all human, and as such, should have our moments to blow off steam. I am NOT AGAINST the user or the staff, and I think that's where my place should be. Because I am human too.
( Anyway, I hope no one thinks that this entire speech was meant to entice anger in anyone. I really don't hate any of you. I just wanted to show why I disagreed with some of the made opinions before myself. I love you all, and I hope you have great and wonderful days.) ^^
I don't agree with Nuru that the staff are cyber bullies. From what I gather, it looks like someone was fed up with being the victim of cyber bullies for so long. No HUMAN, staff included, can take large amounts of unhelpful, and down right cruel, criticisms. You can only ignore hurtful things for so long. I'm sorry, but if the user, or any user that has said things similar in the past, says those things that had been said, there was NO WAY to see that as something other than meaning to be hurtful.
The things that were said, and "I don't like it" are not the same things at all. Even an unhelpful "I don't like it" would have been MUCH better. People should remember that the staff is human, and since the particular staff in question is an artist, I imagine that nothing hurts more that to have users on YOUR site ridicule something you've worked very hard to present to them.
So yes, the staff in particular blew up a little, and yes the user in question was one of, likely, many. In the end, a line was made, and I think all should know by now that you shouldn't cross it. Both sides have efficiently blown up, and I think it should likely be left alone now. I seriously hope people don't pester the user, since they are human too. However, I seriously hope people don't do as some have been doing, and attack the staff. I really don't see why staff should have to act like robots. We are all human, and as such, can get hurt. We are all human, and as such, should have our moments to blow off steam. I am NOT AGAINST the user or the staff, and I think that's where my place should be. Because I am human too.
( Anyway, I hope no one thinks that this entire speech was meant to entice anger in anyone. I really don't hate any of you. I just wanted to show why I disagreed with some of the made opinions before myself. I love you all, and I hope you have great and wonderful days.) ^^
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Nuru
While I appreciate the free book, realizing the meaning of this I can't help but wonder heavily about the maturity of the staff to be attacking someone so publicly - enough clearly people who knew had a laugh at the persons expense and those who didn't went looking to have a laugh at them as well.
This is why I have serous trust issues with you guys, it isn't like you don't get shitty criticism daily. You should be able to ignore it by now instead of exploding at a specific person doing it. You should be better than that.
Cyber bullying is a real issue in this world these days and one should hope the staff of a GAME wouldn't stoop to it.
This is why I have serous trust issues with you guys, it isn't like you don't get shitty criticism daily. You should be able to ignore it by now instead of exploding at a specific person doing it. You should be better than that.
Cyber bullying is a real issue in this world these days and one should hope the staff of a GAME wouldn't stoop to it.
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Melanie
Isn't it a bit unprofessional to target a paying customer (GA user) like this? Wasn't this site created to get away from terrible customer service?
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Botanist
If users are saying 'I think this sucks!' it might hurt the artist's/programmer's/mod's/whatever's feelings and won't help their personal growth, but as a site that's supported by users, surely it's valuable to you if you know when people don't like something?
I mean, yeah, it's better if they can be constructive and help features improve, and they shouldn't be whiny/rude. But sometimes 'I don't like this' is all there is to say - and you should listen when people say it, because they're the people you're trying to sell stuff to.
I mean, yeah, it's better if they can be constructive and help features improve, and they shouldn't be whiny/rude. But sometimes 'I don't like this' is all there is to say - and you should listen when people say it, because they're the people you're trying to sell stuff to.
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Ewok
User makes targetting topic: THIS IS AGAINST THE RULES.
Staff makes targetting news post including targetting item so everyone sees it ... completly fine.
Staff makes targetting news post including targetting item so everyone sees it ... completly fine.
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Muerte
RoseDragonfire
I don't know what this was in reaction to, but I feel for you. As someone who does a LOT of art because I enjoy it, I feel heartbroken when criticism is given that has no purpose other than to bring me down. Especially since the majority of my art is in good spirited gifts. I can only imagine how heartbreaking it is when people don't appreciate the hard work you put into this site. I'm sorry for that, and I couldn't appreciate everything you do more than I do now. I love you guys. <3
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Medli
Kind of agree with LilyValentine. I didn't read through the entire thread in question, but I don't feel like this is a response in good spirit.
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Echo_818
@nut @rhino_loupe
I'm pretty sure that the incident in question happened in the B&C. The user in question is usually pretty respectable (from what I've seen), so I'll chalk it off to a bad day or something.
I'm pretty sure that the incident in question happened in the B&C. The user in question is usually pretty respectable (from what I've seen), so I'll chalk it off to a bad day or something.
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Jodie
LOL. Jesus. And for once I'm fairly certain I know what this is in reference too :P and jeez, /some/ people are taking this a little seriously, lighten up guys!
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Pixie_757
There are SO many users here who could benefit from actually reading this book...if only that was possible. Big thumbs up for the hint though Subeta! ^_^
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Vow_465
Now we just need "An Idiots Guide to Being on Staff Without Being a Sarcastic Asshole When Users Are Unhappy"
Well said @ShortAxel
Well said @ShortAxel
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Azrael
I am laughing so hard right now oh my god. XD I approve of this so much. Sub staff=the total best ever
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Lauren
Can't tell if just being nice...or my fellow users were being ungrateful again. D:
Either way, thanks a million.
Either way, thanks a million.
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Slenderman
I really wonder if the universe would implode if users and admins actually liked each other.
Thanks for the book. :)
Thanks for the book. :)
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Shantal
Glint
Pity... I thought the description was gonna be "Fawning praise all the time doesn't help an artist improve." (not referring to anyone in particular)
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Echo_818
Ha! I'm sure that this has no connection to a recent thread! Love it! (and free book! Yay!)
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Emotional
xD exactly what I was talking about Kieth <3 I love it when you guys are sarcastic. It doesn't make you assholes.
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Clefairy
hahah i see what you did there x) we have nooooooo idea what this is connnection too. /cough cough
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Keith
I mean, that's pretty much exactly what this book would help you with User not found: shortaxel ;).
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Emotional
Oh look there are already criticizing comments on this news post that aren't constructive! It looks like some of the members really do need to read this book.
xD I find it funny and I'm very happy that instead of you guys going 'Oh myh god be constructive about your criticism you idiots' you give us a gift. <333 I'm going to go stuff this in my vault now!
xD I find it funny and I'm very happy that instead of you guys going 'Oh myh god be constructive about your criticism you idiots' you give us a gift. <333 I'm going to go stuff this in my vault now!
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Akio
e_e An idiots guide... to constructive criticism. Sounds a bit um... Well, thank you all the same. :)
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Bison
Now we just need "An Idiots Guide to Being on Staff Without Being a Sarcastic Asshole When Users Are Unhappy"
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ren
oooooh snap. lol. i wish i needed this book, but i guess it can go hide in my vault for a while.
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