Taxes???? Are you bonkers???? I very much dislike taxes in real life. Don't do any taxes in a game. <br><br />
- Wanders off in shock *
I like the idea of being able to price items higher but I don't like the taxes I like my shop to make steady profits and I'm not liking the thought of paying tax. If the tax thing happens then I will stay below the limit. At the moment this option is in the lead so I'm rather happy about that. <br />
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Items in my shop would only be priced above the usual price (without taxes) if that item was already above the usual maximum price in other user shops. I don't like to over inflate an item either but I do like them to have a fair value.
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Items in my shop would only be priced above the usual price (without taxes) if that item was already above the usual maximum price in other user shops. I don't like to over inflate an item either but I do like them to have a fair value.
If we started taxing sellers, wouldn't they all just put the prices up so they get back the same ammount of profit as they would now? Higher prices = Bad. (Might have been said, I haven't read all of these comments)
Putting the price up a bit is a good idea, but taxes? Don't follow what other sites have done. No one even likes it.
I don't bother putting items worth less than 250k in trades, because it's not worth my time or trade space to deal with them.<br />
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When buying items priced higher than 100k, good deals could still be had, tax-free, by seeking out the "beating lowest price" trades that already pop up all over (though the trades that actually have the prices are far more rare).<br />
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In my world, the tax would go to the care and feeding of the magical New Item Elves that work so tirelessly in Subeta's molten core, producing more stuff for us to drool over and collect.<br />
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And I wouldn't miss the tax. If I'm selling MinionX, I don't give a whiff if I make 250k or 225k, as long as I sell it. The numbers are deceptive, and I think a lot of people are reaction with emotions rather than logic to the tax, er, New Item Elf Chow Fund.<br />
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Also, someone in the forums suggested a lottery; if sP were required to buy in, and the winner collected x% of the taxes and lottery ticket earnings, it might make it a bit more palatable (and add another fun game without dumping all that money right back into the economy).
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When buying items priced higher than 100k, good deals could still be had, tax-free, by seeking out the "beating lowest price" trades that already pop up all over (though the trades that actually have the prices are far more rare).<br />
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In my world, the tax would go to the care and feeding of the magical New Item Elves that work so tirelessly in Subeta's molten core, producing more stuff for us to drool over and collect.<br />
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And I wouldn't miss the tax. If I'm selling MinionX, I don't give a whiff if I make 250k or 225k, as long as I sell it. The numbers are deceptive, and I think a lot of people are reaction with emotions rather than logic to the tax, er, New Item Elf Chow Fund.<br />
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Also, someone in the forums suggested a lottery; if sP were required to buy in, and the winner collected x% of the taxes and lottery ticket earnings, it might make it a bit more palatable (and add another fun game without dumping all that money right back into the economy).
On the other side of real life though, I'm pretty sure most of us aren't making upwards of 100-400k dollars a day through buying and selling items like plushies and other fun stuff. =)<br />
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It's a game, it's fun and it's got both realistic and unrealistic features. That's part of what makes it fun in my opinion. I'm really not a fan of the tax, but it's something I could live with if I had to. I don't think I'd stop playing just because the tax system was implemented.
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It's a game, it's fun and it's got both realistic and unrealistic features. That's part of what makes it fun in my opinion. I'm really not a fan of the tax, but it's something I could live with if I had to. I don't think I'd stop playing just because the tax system was implemented.
I keep seeing this whole 'IRL' argument being thrown around, so I'm just going to quote what I said in the forums about this...<br />
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<b>Quote:</b><blockquote style="padding:5px; line-height:15px; background-color: #FAFFFF; border: 1px solid #000000; font-family: georgia; font-size: 10;">Not to come across as rude or anything, but I'm not buying the whole 'taxation is reality, I come here to escape reality' argument. Currency in general is a part of reality, so should Subeta also eliminate sP which will then leave users no options but to use trades and trade item for item? No, that just doesn't make any sense. Like it or not aspects of the 'real world' are going to be implemented on Subeta, it's unavoidable.</blockquote>
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<b>Quote:</b><blockquote style="padding:5px; line-height:15px; background-color: #FAFFFF; border: 1px solid #000000; font-family: georgia; font-size: 10;">Not to come across as rude or anything, but I'm not buying the whole 'taxation is reality, I come here to escape reality' argument. Currency in general is a part of reality, so should Subeta also eliminate sP which will then leave users no options but to use trades and trade item for item? No, that just doesn't make any sense. Like it or not aspects of the 'real world' are going to be implemented on Subeta, it's unavoidable.</blockquote>
We come to subeta to avoid IRL BS.. like Taxes! Sorry.. I'm just very irked today... and my friend brought up this point.
People hated the sales tax when it was introduced on Gaia Online. Why the hell would you rip off a feature that everyone hates?
Higher limits, yes. Taxes, Hell No!! WTF TAXES. Lame. My second vote was to Im notputting anything where there are txes involved. Its a horrid idea.<br />
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Unless said taxes are VERY small and are going to the users some way.. we arent paying for public roadways or school busses so wtf for?
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Unless said taxes are VERY small and are going to the users some way.. we arent paying for public roadways or school busses so wtf for?
AsteriskNovaWell, I don't like the idea of tax as a user, but I see how it can be handy, and I doubt the actual tax on selling an item would be ridiculously high, so go for it I say.
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While I hate the idea of a tax, I do like the idea of raising the limit for prices. Too many times I've accepted UBs instead of pure sP as payment and I can't seem to sell the items. =/<br />
Maybe it'll make it easier to sell things.
Maybe it'll make it easier to sell things.
I guess this is for people who are really desperate to sell items and have a ton of lower-range UBs to sell...as for me, I don't really care. The stuff in my trades can sit in my trades until I die of old age if no one wants to buy them.
OMG, nooooooo!!! not more taxes!!! <img src="http://images.subeta.org/smilies/smiley_sadface.gif" border="0" /> (there's enough taxes in real life, and we don't need them on subeta, where SOME of us go to get away from the real world, with all those taxes and what not!!)
Taxing the sellers? That makes no sense and would just bring down the price of UBs. Why not tax the sellers like in IRL since you're aiming to bring the price of stuff up anyway?<br />
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Not to mention installing it will probably cause another huge glitch as usual ~_~.
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Not to mention installing it will probably cause another huge glitch as usual ~_~.
Taxes would be stupid and pointless. Anyone who wanted to sell something for higher would just avoid putting it in the shop and put it in trades or auctions anyway so there really isn't any point in that.
I see a lot of people saying that one problem with the trades is that sometimes you have to wait for a user to come back online for them to accept your offer -- this is true, I'll admit, but I for one always take a moment to scroll down through all of the trades with the specific item I want until I see a user is online. It's amazingly easy to do so now, since it says the seller's online status right above the trade.<br />
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There are very few items which have only a handful of users selling in the trades, that of which I'm sure anyone (myself included) would be more lenient about and, dare I say, expectant of, waiting a while for.<br />
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Anyway, what I'm worried about is not that people will inflate the prices, but just.. I'm not sure if everyone realizes, but this won't have its own 'special expensive section' in the shop search. If an item is priced at 200k, it can just as easily fall down to 10k as an item that was priced at 99,999 sP.<br />
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I've never seen the shops as a 'quick sale'. When I used my shop, it was for things that obviously weren't unbuyable, but also for things that I didn't mind taking a while to sell. If you want to have a quick sale, the auctions works wonders, as do the trades, if your price is really eye-catching.
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There are very few items which have only a handful of users selling in the trades, that of which I'm sure anyone (myself included) would be more lenient about and, dare I say, expectant of, waiting a while for.<br />
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Anyway, what I'm worried about is not that people will inflate the prices, but just.. I'm not sure if everyone realizes, but this won't have its own 'special expensive section' in the shop search. If an item is priced at 200k, it can just as easily fall down to 10k as an item that was priced at 99,999 sP.<br />
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I've never seen the shops as a 'quick sale'. When I used my shop, it was for things that obviously weren't unbuyable, but also for things that I didn't mind taking a while to sell. If you want to have a quick sale, the auctions works wonders, as do the trades, if your price is really eye-catching.
Any way of being able to price higher than 100k is a good one, if you dont want to be taxed, dont price above 100k in your shop, keep using trades and auctions... obviously if the tax is too high it would be stupid, but i doubt it will be.
i agree with Aloneinshadow. There is trades and auctions to use it is just silly to add taxes
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i feel all taxes would do is,make prices for unbuyables drop even more,just look at some items in shops,people undercut,and it devalues the prices till it's worthless.till the plushie beast needs it.lol.<br />
i just use trades for items i deside to sell for over 100 k.<br />
really like this site,but before i would do a tax thing,i would make it more stable..well thats my feelings..<br />
laterzzzzz
i just use trades for items i deside to sell for over 100 k.<br />
really like this site,but before i would do a tax thing,i would make it more stable..well thats my feelings..<br />
laterzzzzz
The only thing I really would like about this would be the fact that in trades if the person isn't online, you have to wait for them to get online for you to buy the item.<br />
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While this might be a short wait, it all depends on whether the person plans on ever getting on again. If we could sell UB in the shops, even if you aren't on, someone can still buy the item, if the price happens to stay the same for a while for that certain item.<br />
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Still, those that don't like it can still use trades. There will be some people out there that don't like the taxes and will prefer using the trades and auctions, that is if they stay on the site after this is a thumbs-up by us.
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While this might be a short wait, it all depends on whether the person plans on ever getting on again. If we could sell UB in the shops, even if you aren't on, someone can still buy the item, if the price happens to stay the same for a while for that certain item.<br />
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Still, those that don't like it can still use trades. There will be some people out there that don't like the taxes and will prefer using the trades and auctions, that is if they stay on the site after this is a thumbs-up by us.
Hmm. So what is the reasoning behind the seller being taxed, and not the buyer? That doesn't make nearly as much sense.
I'd really like to be able to sell higher priced items in my shop. Once you put an item in trades, it often sits for MONTHS with no offers at all. Honestly, any unbuyable item I get that is worth 200k or less, I just put it in my shop for 100k, because I'm not going to sit and wait 3 months or more just to get an extra 100k or less, especially since often, 3 months from now the item will be deflated anyways. <br />
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And especially on a site like Subeta where 100k is practically nothing, 100k is too low a limit for shops.
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And especially on a site like Subeta where 100k is practically nothing, 100k is too low a limit for shops.
If there must be taxes then make it easier like a certain percent of your sps once a month
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Honestly I'm not sure I understand the reasoning behind taxes on more expensive items in the first place. It's not like we tax trades. Nor should we. What's the rationale?
In case you have not seen it, Keith has made a thread in the Help Forum about this. <img src="http://images.subeta.org/smilies/6398_emoticon_smile.gif" border="0" />
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<b>Quote:</b><blockquote style="padding:5px; line-height:15px; background-color: #FAFFFF; border: 1px solid #000000; font-family: georgia; font-size: 10;">LOL But that is what I am saying.. if no one wants it, it isn't valuable. Someone earlier made a good comparison, Kitty Following and Bowling Pin. It isn't the price of an item that makes it rare, nor the Rarity #, it is how many people WANT it. If no one wants it, and there is an abundance of it, of course the price is going to drop and drop as people try to unload it. Regardless of how patient YOU are willing to be, the prices will fall.</blockquote><br />
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Definitely with a higher rarity (that means less chance they will show up in stores) items drops lower. And there are people who wants it (for item hunt and such). So there is still a chance that I can sell something at a proper price. Of course, I won't stack up a low rarity item or a useless high rarity item for a rediculously high price, that's just agains the basic economic rules. if you sell something in one week and it takes two weeks for the item to deflate, it's still a fast selling, imo. You don't always have to sell just over night :3
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Definitely with a higher rarity (that means less chance they will show up in stores) items drops lower. And there are people who wants it (for item hunt and such). So there is still a chance that I can sell something at a proper price. Of course, I won't stack up a low rarity item or a useless high rarity item for a rediculously high price, that's just agains the basic economic rules. if you sell something in one week and it takes two weeks for the item to deflate, it's still a fast selling, imo. You don't always have to sell just over night :3
<b>Quote:</b><blockquote style="padding:5px; line-height:15px; background-color: #FAFFFF; border: 1px solid #000000; font-family: georgia; font-size: 10;">Then you can always sell your rare items to me for a low price, and I, for one, has the patience to put them in trades to look for a proper offer :3</blockquote><br />
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LOL But that is what I am saying.. if no one wants it, it isn't valuable. Someone earlier made a good comparison, Kitty Following and Bowling Pin. It isn't the price of an item that makes it rare, nor the Rarity #, it is how many people WANT it. If no one wants it, and there is an abundance of it, of course the price is going to drop and drop as people try to unload it. Regardless of how patient YOU are willing to be, the prices will fall.
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LOL But that is what I am saying.. if no one wants it, it isn't valuable. Someone earlier made a good comparison, Kitty Following and Bowling Pin. It isn't the price of an item that makes it rare, nor the Rarity #, it is how many people WANT it. If no one wants it, and there is an abundance of it, of course the price is going to drop and drop as people try to unload it. Regardless of how patient YOU are willing to be, the prices will fall.
Manson: Just as an example, I tried the Graveyard Vending Machine today, for the first time in a long time. I spent 100 tokens and was getting what I thought were an awful lot of "nice" items. Then I checked the prices on SS and almost everything, rare and super rare included, was selling for under 1k. The problem is even spelled out in the names of some of the shops, which was what led me to do some checking. There are names like "Vending Machine Addict", "Feed my vending machine habit", etc. Those may not be the exact names, but are close. The vending machines are causing a glut of items and there are more items coming into play than going out in quests, recycle beast etc. That is basic economics 101 and is causing severe deflation.
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<b>Quote:</b><blockquote style="padding:5px; line-height:15px; background-color: #FAFFFF; border: 1px solid #000000; font-family: georgia; font-size: 10;">BUT, just because the rarity SAYS it is rare, doesn't make it valuable. I for one would rather have high rarity, useless items be 100sP than UB in trades just because the Rarity # warrants it.</blockquote><br />
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Then you can always sell your rare items to me for a low price, and I, for one, has the patience to put them in trades to look for a proper offer :3
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Then you can always sell your rare items to me for a low price, and I, for one, has the patience to put them in trades to look for a proper offer :3
Ok, thank you for the explaination, Seerow. <img src="http://images.subeta.org/smilies/6398_emoticon_smile.gif" border="0" /><br />
Maybe the quest system could be set up like the recycle beast system, in terms of the items asked for. Maybe Saggitarius/the wizard could be set up to ask for heavily deflated items?
Maybe the quest system could be set up like the recycle beast system, in terms of the items asked for. Maybe Saggitarius/the wizard could be set up to ask for heavily deflated items?
I think there should be a forum thread, this really needs to be discussed, then once we all understand what the gaol is, then have a poll.
Seriously. Why add taxes? That kind of stuff is for real life and I think it's a little ridiculous to charge people to sell things in their shops, no matter how little the tax. I also think upping the prices is a bad idea because we already have enough problems with people selling rare items for lower than I think they should be.<br />
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Just start using trades or auctions instead of ruining the fun for the patient people trying to sell rares there.
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Just start using trades or auctions instead of ruining the fun for the patient people trying to sell rares there.
<b>Quote:</b><blockquote style="padding:5px; line-height:15px; background-color: #FAFFFF; border: 1px solid #000000; font-family: georgia; font-size: 10;">Yes, that's why we have so many rare items that sell at less then 100sp now. Raise the limit of user shop only helps to create more of those items.</blockquote><br />
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BUT, just because the rarity SAYS it is rare, doesn't make it valuable. I for one would rather have high rarity, useless items be 100sP than UB in trades just because the Rarity # warrants it.
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BUT, just because the rarity SAYS it is rare, doesn't make it valuable. I for one would rather have high rarity, useless items be 100sP than UB in trades just because the Rarity # warrants it.
I agree about the vending machines harming the economy, even if I am highly addicted to them.<br />
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For pretty much no cost (after all you get wiz tokens from quests and now that he gives out sp, they are essentially "free") you can pump in hundred of tokens a day and get out hundreds of items. That's a lot of items for one person, but consider that there are hundreds of people doing the exact same thing.<br />
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The vending machines don't have that much of an array of items they give out and as such, many of the same set of items are released. Think about when the Oceans Depth was released. It pumped tons of Subeatique clothes (and other rarer items) into the economy and since tons of people continually use that machine (for the Riptide) there is a saturation in the market of the items it commonly gives out. <br />
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I actually like the idea of raising the price and also making it more of a risk as to whether or not you'll get an item.
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For pretty much no cost (after all you get wiz tokens from quests and now that he gives out sp, they are essentially "free") you can pump in hundred of tokens a day and get out hundreds of items. That's a lot of items for one person, but consider that there are hundreds of people doing the exact same thing.<br />
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The vending machines don't have that much of an array of items they give out and as such, many of the same set of items are released. Think about when the Oceans Depth was released. It pumped tons of Subeatique clothes (and other rarer items) into the economy and since tons of people continually use that machine (for the Riptide) there is a saturation in the market of the items it commonly gives out. <br />
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I actually like the idea of raising the price and also making it more of a risk as to whether or not you'll get an item.
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<b>Quote:</b><blockquote style="padding:5px; line-height:15px; background-color: #FAFFFF; border: 1px solid #000000; font-family: georgia; font-size: 10;">Its_Just_Me, can you clarify how the vending machine is ruining the economy?</blockquote><br />
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Yes, that too. I've made a survey and the result was, almost all people have 12+ pages in usershop restocks at vending machines.
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Yes, that too. I've made a survey and the result was, almost all people have 12+ pages in usershop restocks at vending machines.
The only problem with that is that the prices change so much, it can be hard to keep up with them. And there are people who go way under the normal price, and when people price theirs, the prices go down way too far. I like the trades and auctions for unbuyable (things over 100k) items more.
Its_Just_Me, can you clarify how the vending machine is ruining the economy? I am not offended or anything, I just curious would like to read your theory. <img src="http://images.subeta.org/smilies/6398_emoticon_smile.gif" border="0" />
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<b>Quote:</b><blockquote style="padding:5px; line-height:15px; background-color: #FAFFFF; border: 1px solid #000000; font-family: georgia; font-size: 10;">I'm not worried about deflation.</blockquote><br />
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It will not only cause a deflation, but also an INFLATION of new items - consider meanwhile, the lower limit of trade would be changed to 300k instead of 100k.
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It will not only cause a deflation, but also an INFLATION of new items - consider meanwhile, the lower limit of trade would be changed to 300k instead of 100k.
I'm loving the idea of having higher prices allowed in shops. I hate trades, and have never once set foot in an auction. Who wants to wait days on end for something to be accepted/auction to end? I don't mind the tax as long as its not ungodly unreasonable. It will help to suck more sp out of the economy in a way that doesn't actually hurt the economy (unlike the Legendary Weapons).<br />
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And for those of you complaining about how this will deflate prices, think about this: If your item is rotting in trades at the price you have it at, then the people of Subeta are not prepared to purchase your item for that price. Doesn't matter if its rarity 75 or 150, if its not selling you will be forced to lower your price until someone on Subeta considers that price fair. Allowing higher prices in shops simply makes it more convient for people to search around for an item they want at a price they are willing to pay. So what if your 10mill plushie is now selling for 300k. The market wasn't prepared to buy your plushie for the 10mill price and if you ever want to sell it you'll have to lower your price.
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And for those of you complaining about how this will deflate prices, think about this: If your item is rotting in trades at the price you have it at, then the people of Subeta are not prepared to purchase your item for that price. Doesn't matter if its rarity 75 or 150, if its not selling you will be forced to lower your price until someone on Subeta considers that price fair. Allowing higher prices in shops simply makes it more convient for people to search around for an item they want at a price they are willing to pay. So what if your 10mill plushie is now selling for 300k. The market wasn't prepared to buy your plushie for the 10mill price and if you ever want to sell it you'll have to lower your price.
While I'm not for taxes, I'm all for a higher limit and know, from experience elsewhere, that it will not deflate prices. It will actually help stabilize prices of lower value rare items - ie, those that aren't truely rare (Think Kitty Following versus Bowling Pin). It would be a major help for Item Hunt and another quest which will remain unnamed as well as for people trying to build galleries and have to spend hours searching trades for someone on line for a 200K item which needs to be separated and then being frustrated because the person doesn't reply when they do come online. <br />
What is really killing the economy on Subeta is the vending machine and it has gotten worse since the Wiz quests were increased for everyone. There are several options to "cure" the problem, which probably wouldn't be to popular, but would make a better site. <br />
Any one, or combination, would greatly strengthen the economy of Subeta.
What is really killing the economy on Subeta is the vending machine and it has gotten worse since the Wiz quests were increased for everyone. There are several options to "cure" the problem, which probably wouldn't be to popular, but would make a better site. <br />
- They are set up as a claw, so make them just that. You don't get a prize every time from a claw.<br />
- Limit the number of plays per day.<br />
- Increase the amount of tokens needed to play. <br />
Any one, or combination, would greatly strengthen the economy of Subeta.
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Taxation... well thats always a sticky subject no matter where your talking about it. Naturally no one likes it, so why do it? In theory someone can easily just escape taxes through trades. -shrugs- ehh everything has its benefits and downfalls...personally I just don't like the idea, hard earned sp going to absolutely nothing, doesn't set well with me. <br />
<br />Though I must admit, its kind of interesting how you gave us the new avatar system and the taxation question at pretty much the same time..."hey isn't the new avatar system great...now what's your opinion on taxation?"..."say what!?" XD I hope that wasn't the intent, butter us up so we're more willing. Oh well at least we have a say on it, rather than just having it thrown onto us.
<br />Though I must admit, its kind of interesting how you gave us the new avatar system and the taxation question at pretty much the same time..."hey isn't the new avatar system great...now what's your opinion on taxation?"..."say what!?" XD I hope that wasn't the intent, butter us up so we're more willing. Oh well at least we have a say on it, rather than just having it thrown onto us.
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<b>Quote:</b><blockquote style="padding:5px; line-height:15px; background-color: #FAFFFF; border: 1px solid #000000; font-family: georgia; font-size: 10;">The higher prices are a good idea because then people can go look up what the price is, and put it in the shops.</blockquote><br />
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You can always look up a price in trades, even in Price Check forum. And I don't think some people will look at the price even if it's available in usershop - they just either tag a random low price for being lazy, or tag a low price to "lurk" GA members who use autoprioce (so they can buy a manually deflated item and sell it at a much higher price. I've seen a few people doing this, almost on a daily base)<br />
"Easier to look up for a price" should never be a good reason to raise the limit of usershops.
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You can always look up a price in trades, even in Price Check forum. And I don't think some people will look at the price even if it's available in usershop - they just either tag a random low price for being lazy, or tag a low price to "lurk" GA members who use autoprioce (so they can buy a manually deflated item and sell it at a much higher price. I've seen a few people doing this, almost on a daily base)<br />
"Easier to look up for a price" should never be a good reason to raise the limit of usershops.
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I pay enuff tax in RL thank you very much.