@Quest If you spend 500 million SP on a consumable item that you can't even keep after you've used it, and you're mad because someone can buy it now for 7 million SP (which is NOT peanuts, because to do all 15 quests every day costs time, and time is also worth real money and if you have a lot of other things going on in your life you can't do it every day) then you should be mad at yourself.

It's a known fact that all non CW items (which are limited by batch size unless they're submitted as unlimited) get re-released. Why would you do that?

I've easily spent 500 million SP on books total because I have a pet who's on the SAI track. But not ONE book.

I forget what it was, but early on I spent way too much SP on a retired cash shop item because then I didn't know that they come back for Anniversaries and BF. But I'm not yelling at anyone. I'm grateful that now I know I don't have to do that for all of the ones on my WL. Eventually I'll get them.

@THESOVEREIGN
And you just had to give away my game :p
It was meant for them to figure it out.... but nooo... "here is the cheat sheet", you say,

@Valiska
350 coins is penuts.... its being almost a year and it's at 20k per coin. While event is on they go for 10k-15k.
Thats around a 3.5m ~ 7m sP, lets say average 5m+
I can make 4m sp with just quest without items... so it's like a day worth of quests.
You think an event that lasted about 2 weeks, the reward can be earn by 1 day worth of quest?
Is that even effort to value?
If they have put it like 2k coins, well at least it's more even.

Also, people spend real money on those pixels. For them is not "fake money".
It's like if they re-release all referral items at 100k per point after you spend $20 to buy csc to buy the Block BB Sticker.
I bet you could be mad. Specially because 100k is not equal effort for 1 referral point.
The bigger the gap the more you feel screw over. Sure, you can take it like a champ but it's still wrong.

@THESOVEREIGN I'm not really seeing how 350 Vesnali Coins translates to "peanuts". That's a lot of flowers.

As a grown-ass adult with a job I consider myself very fortunate to have good friends who are still in school and willing to give me flowers while I'm at work all day long so I can get some coins too, and I do for them what I can on evenings/weekends.

I have a pretty high sodium level in my bloodstream but if you really have "billions of SP lying around" I think maybe you should stop worrying so much about what you spend them on. It's not real money. Your retirement fund wasn't blown in the stock market, it's all pixels.

And the item is a book. After your pet has read it, it's gone. If you don't let your pet read it/read it to them, it's worth nothing because there's nothing else to do with it.

I probably would have a billion SP by now but I prefer to spend them on my friends during Luminaire and on myself during Black Friday and so on. There is always something to spend that much SP on. Buy your friends who don't have billions lying around something nice from their WL that they can't afford. Buy some CSC and get some CWs. I could only afford to spend like $50 on Black Friday, but I cashed in 400 million SP for CSC so I could haunt the Pawn Shop and pick up some nice BF releases.

Please be nice to the mods. They work really hard. I disagree with some of their decisions and say so here in the news comments some, but I think you're going overboard and you might be embarrassed later when you have had a chance to calm down.

I sold my book for 100mil maybe a year after the release? And even that seemed overpriced to me. The book was the best prize from the plot but it was never meant to cost 500mil, hence this rerelease. We were all warned beforehand several times, the person who bought the book knew it was gonna happen and they have no regrets. I find many of the comments here to be offensive and blatantly disrespectful to the mods they are directed at. You know you are speaking to a PERSON right? Someone who works tirelessly on this site for US while also juggling real life and real jobs. Stop whining over pixels and fake currency or leave if it bothers you that much.

@Bug

They screwed over the person that paid 500mil for it. Period. Sounds like the person is taking it well, but they still got screwed. Going back to your timeline, the sale was Nov 16th, so it seems like the sale actually the rerelease, meaning they definitely got screwed, probably by someone seeing the price check board and posting on the items to rerelease thread.

As for my price check advice, go back and reread it, I mention the possibility of rerelease in almost every post, and how I would navigate the sale. I say I would be a buyer at 200 and a seller at 500-1bil, and that I would probably get screwed by a rerelease before I ever saw a profit.

@Ariel @Amber

I think what quest was trying to say is that you 2 often seem surprised and defensive when you guys go and rerelease something that was previously 500mil for peanuts. You make statements that you are try to make things available without destroying the value, but then you go an obliterate the value of a set of items and seem surprised that it was worth x00 million the day before.

For example the desert plot prizes which were probably around 750-1.5billion beforehand, then dropped to 50mil each, despite other antique shop items for sale at the 750+mil range. With anything that isn't battle related, it seems completely arbitrary what gets released and in what quantity. People have billions of sP lying around with very few items that are worth spending hundreds of millions to billions of sP on.

Noone is asking that these things get put in a vault never to been seen again, but it would be nice if some restraint were shown.

@MOKONA :)

Oh, these 9 items were the only ones from the event participation?

Did Esther just call us "dear creatures"? *twitch twitch* It sounds rather mean to me. Why creatures?

Thanks for your purchase, all of the proceeds go to making Subeta greener!
Well-Worn Seed Planting Diary

I finally got it after waiting for so long! *happy tear*

@Ariel
Are you kidding me? The part of my post you went against is like almost perfect match counter.... Did you understood what I was saying at all? Let's play a game! I will quote a sentence from your post and a sentence from mine on order! Let's find out if you can now figure out what I'm saying.

You: "We only have two item admins, Amber and myself."
Me: "Don't separate each other into small teams "

You: "We do every single one of these together, and have team meetings about them beforehand."
Me: "work as a big team together."

You: "We consult BAs for anything even vaguely related to battling, but otherwise these are joint efforts between the two of us."
Me: "Think what is a healthy way to release items which is balance with effort and current market."

You: "Not sure what exactly you think we're aiming to do, but it isn't anything like what you've just insinuated."
Me: "This is why many people are getting extremely mad. People are leaving and try to sell their things for either csc/sp to buy art or risking getting banned and get a bit of real $$$....."

AMAZING! You just score 4/4 >.>

i love it

Well, I was here for this event but I was swamped with school - literally just about to graduate at the time - so I have little memory of the event itself and certainly never saw that rake, though I wanted it... So happy to be able to buy it now!

I joined Subeta in February 2017. I don't get why there's so much salt over letting new users acquire things from events that we were never here for. It's not like we declined to participate. I'm older, but some of the newer users were probably kids who were too young for Subeta in 2012.

Look, I'm really good at vending, but the most SP I've ever had was 600 million--which I spent almost all of on Black Friday and Luminaire. If someone can afford to pay 500 million SP for a single item I'm not going to cry tears of blood over their loss, because a lot of users never see that much SP.

I made one of my pets a recycler at Veta Lake helping the beast just yesterday! so this is all good stuff, thank you!

Yes, thank you!

@SAMARITAN NP! I know it's a little hard finding them, which is why I made sure to include the year tab they'd be in for the post. And since they're older, it's not like you can easily get it out of the item directory like a new batch of holiday/game items, so figured it'd be best to have all of them in the post <3

Whoops, should have refreshed before I replied. Thanks guys.

@Nanny
Hi, these were from the event in 2012!

@Amber
see there? my point of being forgetful
thank you for the super useful info!

@SAMARITAN All the items from the project are included in the news post, if that helps! We didn't sneak any in there on you :)

@Nanny
These items were the prizes for participating in the Centropolis Green Project from years ago, the event isn't going on anymore. So no, you only get them if you want them for your collections or whatever, but there's no event to use them for or anything like that.

I'm very forgetful so I guess I'll have to hover over every item and see which ones are "Game Prize (160)"
A separated category would be much better imo :c BUT HELL YEAH FOR OLD ITEMS

@Ariel Can you answer my question below this comment thankie so much sorry i dont know how to Edit

So, I actually take back what I said /it was purely in irony though, because someone willing to shell out 500mil on something must have some sort of awareness for sure/ and I have to say that the following sentence is basically the point you guys are missing here.

are these items needed in the Centropolis Green Project i see the pic changed thankie so much

Thank you! Nice to have some excitement this month.. Subeta is the best!

@THESOVEREIGN

First, it is no secret that items are re-released. As Ariel mentioned, staff has always been very vocal about it. Heck, we even have a suggestions topic called "What items do you want to see back in circulation?"

Second, please stop saying the admins "screwed over" buyers. No one is forcing anyone to buy anything. I would hope somebody able to spend so much on a single book would be familiar enough with this game to know that items come back. And honestly, I wouldn't assume buyers are always so naive; I know a lot of people are willing to spend more even knowing that it will be re-released, because they don't want to wait for it. That is the buyer's choice and responsibility.

Third, in this specific case, it is absolutely unfair to blame the admins because we actually gave warning several weeks ahead of time that these specific items would be returning. Just to list a few examples:

1. November 30 - "We're constantly checking old items to bring back (a lot of which you guys have suggested on that thread in S&I, the item circulation one). A great example of this is we've finally figured out how we're going to bring back some of those vesnali garden items (ex: Well-Worn Seed Planting Diary)!"
2. December 28 - "most of it is behind the scene stuff (like preparing the free shop and preparing new year stuff and garden plot items making a comeback)"
3. January 4 - "Ariel and I are in discussion about a lot of cool back end item things that will def help us bring back a lot of older things"

We were not trying to blindside anybody with this re-release.

Finally, you mention the price check board. I took a look, and multiple people there mentioned the possibility of re-release, including yourself. Yet you also told the poster to ask for 1 billion sP as a starting price, and said you would not sell it for less than 500m yourself. If you are concerned that buyers get "screwed over" by rereleases, you can help by giving more rerelease-conscious advice on these forums. For example, you could have said, "You may be able to fetch as much as 500m for this item, but I've seen so many people get screwed over by rereleases, so I would not sell for over 150m in good conscience." Ultimately, it's up to the buyer how much they want to spend vs wait for a given item.

As someone who did purchase that book for what you think is an insane amount, I did it because I was impatient. Was fully aware this was going to happen because they hinted at it multiple times. I just wanted to get closer to reading all the books on site. I am still willing to pay a crazy amount for the other books knowing that they will eventually get circulated again. In fact I hope they do and have mentioned it on the suggestion boards. People pay a premium for expedited results.

shucks I jut plowed through most of my vesnali coins working on vesnali gourmand.
:D:D:D but I still have enough for that RAKE! <3<3<3

i won't argue about the book being cheap for an event prize, but. within the context of esther's shop, 350 tokens makes sense. it's the most expensive thing in the shop now, and last year you needed close to two thousand tokens to buy one of every new item AND the bouquet feature made it harder for casual players to collect tokens in general, so. i guess what i'm saying is, sorry y'all are displeased about tanking prices but tbh this is probably better for the book's value then a free shop release?? /shrug

also i was saving my tokens in anticipation of lovely anniversary wears but that beanbag is calling to me it's so cute oh no

@Quest
We only have two item admins, Amber and myself. We do every single one of these together, and have team meetings about them beforehand. We consult BAs for anything even vaguely related to battling, but otherwise these are joint efforts between the two of us. Not sure what exactly you think we're aiming to do, but it isn't anything like what you've just insinuated.

No need to oarticipate in events... if you wait awhile what you worked for is easily available to all.

Problem with rerelease is that the only "balance" rerelease have being the islanders event. Every other item have being rerelease for way too cheap. 350 coins.... it's nothing compare with the effort people put in to obtain this "semi-limited" reward. These prices don't match the time, effort, and exclusive of the items. However, when we talk about something like a godly weapons getting released.... Nooooo.... that's too much. That effort is actually worth something. Some past rerelease events were more difficult and time consuming than the Godlies. They only get rarer after people stop playing or get banned with holding them in their account. We can even talk how you guys screw people over with the Eternal. Putting it at 40m when it was worth so much in the cash shop! It was an item that didn't need to be move since it was frequently sold in trading post.

In short, all things the admins are saying contradicts one to another. They do thing that are random without any rationality whatsoever. People asks for answer of why they do anything and they bring some excuse that contradicts their previous responses.

The admins need to organize their things together. Don't separate each other into small teams but work as a big team together. Think what is a healthy way to release items which is balance with effort and current market. This is why many people are getting extremely mad. People are leaving and try to sell their things for either csc/sp to buy art or risking getting banned and get a bit of real $$$.....

Well I for one am ecstatic to see these :D I've been lusting over the Seed Diary for years now. Thanks so much, Subeta staff!!!

@Ariel

I'm well aware that you guys do this, but this is the first time in a while where there was a recent sale of a very rare item, and then 3 months later it is devalued by 98.6%. The rumor was that you guys avoided doing this to items that had crossed hands recently, but this is still on the front page of the price check board, and this sale has been brought up on more recent boards as a benchmark in discussions about other rare books on more recent boards. This book was said to be the third rarest book on the site.

The thing that I think has always frustrated me when dealing with rereleases isn't that they happen as much as that they happen as pretty much giveaways. You could have made the seed diary 3500 VT and still would have been less than 20% of the the last sale price, still crappy for the person that paid 5x that, but at least it would feel difficult to obtain and not a complete giveaway. you guys talk about trying to create sinks for sP, ect, but then destroy potential sinks as giveaways.

The other thing that bugs me about is what benefit does it do for the site to destroy the value of these things? Is this going to inspire people to go guy buy all the CS books out of the CS now that they can finally complete their collections? Probably not. But the last sale was carried out with CSC, which actually did benefit the site. Noone needs to go out and buy CSC for afford this thing anymore.

I can understand wanting to make sure things are obtainable, I don't understand the obsession with making sure they are worthless. You say you make an attempt to wrangle the outliers? Quite frankly, I don't believe you made any effort to research the value of those items at all before shoving them in there. There is a price check board with all this information on the front page of the price checking thread, and a staff member, and a mini mod both commented on the board. A minimod even made the purchase. So we know that you didn't do a forum search, and we know you didn't talk to other staff members.

The type of info that we go through on the price check board to determine how rare something is isn't exactly rocket science and the data we use to price these things out takes us hours of public user collections. (90% of the time it is a subetalodge search and a gallery search) I'm sure a programer could create a tool to do the analysis we do on the price check boards in seconds, and with higher accuracy. Metrics like:

Total on the site
% tradeable (Total-number in collections/total)
% active (total-items held in accounts not accessed in 1 year/total)
% of top 100 or top 20 collectors with item X in their collection
An Index search to search for an average price of item type X with rarity Y.

Giving a tool like that to any random user would crash the site, but giving a tool like that a staff member who would only use it before rereleasing the third rarest book on the site probably not going to do a whole lot of damage. You wouldn't even need to run the search multiple times, running it once would give you a list of the rarest/most desirable books/beanbags/plushies/stickers/TCG.

Ouch 350 coins, lower than expected. Oh well! :P

@THESOVEREIGN
Literally the #1 Rule on Subeta is that ANYTHING is eligible to be re-released. Regardless of how it's originally obtained. They've said this so many times. If someone decides to spend a billion sP on anything, that's because they want it. Not because they need it. Look at bobble heads. Those were originally totally RNG. Now they are obtainable for CSC every once in a while. What you spend to obtain what you want is a person's perogative.

No one was screwed out of anything. Did they get their book? Yeah. Did the person who sold it sell it? Yeah.
Sounds like a deal. No one can predict a re-release. ¯_(ツ)_/¯

@THESOVEREIGN
We consistently bring back old items and are incredibly vocal about it. That's a shame someone choose to spend that much, but just about everything will come back in some way at some point. It's one of my favorite things to do--make sure everything is attainable, even it isn't necessarily easy. It's not always easy to balance the "value" and new price, but we make every effort to make it as fair as we can across the board. It's difficult sometimes (we've especially had some trouble with the Antique Shop) because even if we price things equally to how they were originally released as far as value, there will still be a huge discrepancy in current price because some items are more sought after, usable, etc. That's why we do what we can to wrangle in outliers as best we can.

Lake cleanup, hmm? Go on...

How weird!! I just noticed last night how the 2010 and 2011 items that had been long retired are back in Esther's shop!! How fabulous!!! Thank you @Amber!!

So sad for whoever bought it for 500mil xoxo

I'm glad to see these items back again! Good to see that diary being available :)

I'm so happpyyyyyyy! :D
Even though I don't have nearly enough coins, lol.

@Laurey thank you!

The seeds and stuff were cool. Maybe they will be a Crystal Shop or MC release.

@Solsticesprite
Yeah, I'm pretty sure it's just those 9 for now, since those were like the final prizes for participating. Looking on Subetalodge, the only other items involved were the plants and seeds that we used for the decorating part, but those haven't been put in the shop at this time.

As one of the individuals who got those original items (the book and rake), I'm really happy to see these items back in circulation! It gives me some hope for other items to come back at some point! Happy for all the people who finally get these desired items :)

Thank you! Hugs and kisses to Esther, Emma and Sarah!

THANK I REALLY WANT DAT RAKE PLZ (Gonna get ALL THE COINS this Vesnali)

Ahh need that book *u*
Thank you guys so much for adding it!!
I’ll have to get coins during our next event

I have almost all of the pictured items. Is it just the items pictured here in the News post? Because there's a lot of items under the 2012 tab and it will be a pain to check them all.

They've been re-releasing A LOT of old holiday items, and have continuously said that there will be more and more ways of getting older items out in circulation again in the future. Very few things on this site ends up being permanently retired, so IDK why people are spending that much on some of these old items to begin with when staff have said that they will be coming back...

Thank yoooooou!

Yay :)

NOPE not waiting

OMG! The 'Well-Worn Seed Planting Diary' hasn't been available for love or money! TY!!!! :D

Thanks for your purchase, all of the proceeds go to making Subeta greener!
X 2

You have 4,005 Vesnali Coins! Click here to turn in all of your Vesnali Coins from your inventory.
Still after spending on book and rake.

Thanks, Esther. Got myself a rake, and I hope to do something with it.

Actually, speaking of... Are we going to get any holiday achievements?

Drat, no tokens at the moment. I have a shop full of flowers, but when the bouquets came out last year, I had to start hoarding those too. Unfortunately, the late release of Vesnali achievements meant my token stock was depleted. Oh well. I'll wait til May to grab that book.

WOW seed planting diary literally just sold at ~500mil...

Way to screw over that person

Was this the same event as the summer in centropolis event? There is a price check on a couple similar items that people are saying 250mil and 750-1bil on a book. Are they going to get rereleased too?

May you two be happy together forever <3

And I like this idea. The theme for this year is a favorite.

Am def going to be waiting until vesnali for a few things though, I have only a few coins to my name, so I'm glad they're not temporary

Thank you! I need a second rake :D

Excellent!

Esther: "my wife Emma"
Me, every time:

@Prismi
I find Holiday Prizes to be expensive period xD

@Prismi it's the best of rakes though

damn, that's one expensive rake! gonna have to wait for Vesnali :O

You have 96 Vesnali Coins!

I need so many things, not enough coins lol

Thank you based Esther.

You have 2,592 Vesnali Coins!
So wise to be a hoarder sometimes!
...
Esther
Thanks for your purchase, all of the proceeds go to making Subeta greener!

Well-Worn Seed Planting Diary
350 vesnali coins spent, compared to a couple hundred million sP, like others have spent for this once super rare book.
I love it!
Peace!