Duality Quests: More Context
First, users brought up the issues regarding how Mori and Nori were portrayed so this brainstorm thread so born. If you look at the date, you can see it was created well over a year ago and users brought it up before that. It's unacceptable that we took so long to address this. While yes, our team is small and incredibly stretched thin, it shouldn't have taken us the amount of time it did. We as a team have a problem with breaking tasks up into smaller things; we always want to do everything at once. In this case, we really thought it made the most sense and was the most respectful to get everything changed at once. It was clearly not the right way to go about things, and I personally want to apologize to those I put off with my "we're working on it" generic comments.
Now, what was the issue with Nori and Mori?
Quote:
"Mori and Nori as well as items relating to them have been changed due to the use of terminology that is offensive to those with Dissociative Identity Disorder. While they were not meant to be a direct representation of the disorder, many users have voiced their concerns that the inherent nature of her backstory alongside it being painted in a negative light opened up a lot of opportunities for offensive language being used throughout the site. Since Mori and Nori are such an accessible and essential part of the site, having things like this at the forefront may reenforce the thought that the usage of these terms is acceptable and normalized, which is not what's wanted at all in a site that seeks to be inclusive and diverse."
This was beautifully said by user
fun who has experience with DID and has been a champion for educating the staff and users. I asked them to sum up what the problem for users without having to read the entire suggestion thread.We've updated the text for the Mori and Nori quests (the intro text, the turn in text, the failed quest, the reward text), the quest shop text, the subetapedia main entry about the two as well as the quick facts listed in the quest givers list, and various items around the site. We've also renamed the achievements associated with Mori and Nori. Did we miss something? Please ping me (
Amber) so I can adjust it. In the future, I will actively try to not offer excuses ("our team is small" "our focus is on a holiday") and will do my best to work with users to get things updated in a timely manner. This isn't always possible, of course, but I personally could have done a lot better job with this particular issue.
Why does this all matter?
Like
fun's quote says, we really do strive to be inclusive and diverse. We don't want to have things on site that upset users in a negative way like this. It's one thing to not like an item because you think spiders (or something similar) are scary, it's another to have to deal with an item promoting negative stereotypes to a mental health disorder you may have. By not addressing user concerns about Mori and Nori in a timely matter, we as staff made part of our user base feel unheard and unimportant which is never what we want. We've adjusted items with a quick turn around before (Algonquin Plushie comes to mind) and the fact we took over a year to make these changes was plain wrong. Why post a new news post instead of just adding another comment to the earlier post?
The users who brought up the issue with Mori and Nori, continued to fight for the change, and actively tried to educate users and staff deserve this post. They deserve to be publicly acknowledged for the work they did.
Posted by Amber
Arcana_Apprentice
Hey I think the Mori|Nori quest thing this week is still broken, it still says Cursed quests. It says for the weekend quests "Bonus Weekend: Cursed Quests"
0
Epic
It would be good in situations like this to show the new content, as I don't know how to find what has changed.
0
Epic
It would be good in situations like this to show the new content, as I don't know how to find what has changed.
0
Epic
It would be good in situations like this to show the new content, as I don't know how to find what has changed.
0
KTRoo
This is a great step. Now can we also get all the egregious "it's so girly!!" sentiments on a bunch of pink stuff descriptions? Some is whatever but there are like dozens of items reiterating how pink can clearly only mean girl obvs
7
Belladonna
i understand and appreciate the change, however i would like to know where i can find screenshots/records of the old quest blurbs and item descs for archival? ive been attempting to create a cohesive archive of older subeta content but its extremely hard to find them since this isnt a super well known site so not a lot of consistent documentation that ive found. this site means so much to me and id hate to see a part of it fade into lost media so suddenly.
3
Takarama
@Rat Thank you so much for explaining that to me! I didn't realize that terminology was used, and I definitely can see why that would be hurtful. I'm glad they changed it :)
Thank you for taking the time to explain it in more detail! I just was unsure if it was the curse part of the story or if there was direct terminology used, so that clears things up!
Thank you for taking the time to explain it in more detail! I just was unsure if it was the curse part of the story or if there was direct terminology used, so that clears things up!
1
WolfieWU
...And before anyone jumps on my case about being insensitive -- I had a protector identity back in high school, and even if I didn't, it's okay to have a different opinion. I liked the narrative as it was, but I'm sure ya'll can find ways to make it interesting even with the change.
1
WolfieWU
"During the 2012 survival plot Nori quite literally handcuffed herself to a radiator to prevent Mori from awakening and helping Ecks."
... Man, that sounds cool as HELL and I'm sad I missed it! We shouldn't have changed the evil part at all!
... Man, that sounds cool as HELL and I'm sad I missed it! We shouldn't have changed the evil part at all!
5
Ange
huh, i never really knew the details as to why i always skipped nori/mori quests come quest time, but this explains a LOT.
glad to see responsibility & accountability take place here.
be well everyone! <3
glad to see responsibility & accountability take place here.
be well everyone! <3
1
Inknote
i respect the fuck outta yall for not only making this change, but making a SECOND news post like this. seeing, appreciating, and listening to the userbase is one of the things i love most about subeta
8
pythonesque
Thank you for the change! I agree that Duality is a much cooler name and concept, on top of addressing the issues of ableism. I also appreciate you being upfront and honest about this taking longer than is should have to be handled. ♥️ I've been following that thread for awhile and I was excited to come back to Subeta to this news!
7
Rat
@Takarama the threads here have more info from those with DID on why mori/nori and some of the associated items/achievement names were specifically asked to be changed:
https://subeta.net/forums.php/read/925130
https://subeta.net/forums.php/read/925767/MoriNoriMono-Ri-suggestions
most specifically, the phrases "two faced" and "split personality" are considered rude and out of date ways to refer to Dissociative Identity Disorder (aka DID), even though Mori/nori wasn't specifically made with that in mind, thier story was still too close a parallel to continue to be associated with those phrases, so staff decided on a full rewrite that replaced not only the out of date/rude phrases, but also changed the lore to be less similar to those irl with DID
@Tribunal While I can see where you are coming from, I am choosing to take this as Subeta committing to be better about these matters in general moving forward. Users really only asked for a change to one item and one achievement, if you read the threads linked above it was Subeta team that decided to do an entire revamp, but then them taking long with not many updates is what led to a lot of upset, and then hence why there has been such a big apology post for it
As i say in my first post on this news post, I really do hope they are better about all types of sensitivity changes in the future, and I gestured towards the Item Name/Description Update thread to hopefully get some updates soon.
If there is something you want changed, advocate for it and make a post on that thread or a new thread. The only reason this change happened was because people with DID and others who are supportive campaigned for the change :)
https://subeta.net/forums.php/read/925130
https://subeta.net/forums.php/read/925767/MoriNoriMono-Ri-suggestions
most specifically, the phrases "two faced" and "split personality" are considered rude and out of date ways to refer to Dissociative Identity Disorder (aka DID), even though Mori/nori wasn't specifically made with that in mind, thier story was still too close a parallel to continue to be associated with those phrases, so staff decided on a full rewrite that replaced not only the out of date/rude phrases, but also changed the lore to be less similar to those irl with DID
@Tribunal While I can see where you are coming from, I am choosing to take this as Subeta committing to be better about these matters in general moving forward. Users really only asked for a change to one item and one achievement, if you read the threads linked above it was Subeta team that decided to do an entire revamp, but then them taking long with not many updates is what led to a lot of upset, and then hence why there has been such a big apology post for it
As i say in my first post on this news post, I really do hope they are better about all types of sensitivity changes in the future, and I gestured towards the Item Name/Description Update thread to hopefully get some updates soon.
If there is something you want changed, advocate for it and make a post on that thread or a new thread. The only reason this change happened was because people with DID and others who are supportive campaigned for the change :)
13
Tribunal
Frustrating that a (fairly niche) change has been met with such adulation when previous attempts at much more common issues got a lot lot lot more derision. Don't get me wrong, I appreciate the change and feel it was called for. I just wish it mattered less who was calling for it.
And that wide gap between criticism and abuse is lookin' a little narrow atm. Nothing feels worse than complaining about unequal enforcement leading to unequal enforcement.
I'm trying to put this nicely/calmly. If the issue is just closed for discussion it would be nice if that could be said.
And that wide gap between criticism and abuse is lookin' a little narrow atm. Nothing feels worse than complaining about unequal enforcement leading to unequal enforcement.
I'm trying to put this nicely/calmly. If the issue is just closed for discussion it would be nice if that could be said.
10
Takarama
Thank you for this change <3 Is it possible to have the issue explained in more detail to me? I'm a writer and would love to know what specific concerns were raised so I can educate myself further
It's been a few years since I delved into the lore so I'm a bit lost on what was changed haha but if it makes people more comfy then I'm happy with it!
It's been a few years since I delved into the lore so I'm a bit lost on what was changed haha but if it makes people more comfy then I'm happy with it!
1
Galaxia
I am going to be hiding most new comments to turn down the heat and that button automatically comes with a request to review the community guidelines. It is not an automatic strike against you or judgement of your comment. Just take a breath, maybe do some quests for the midnight turnover.
16
Galaxia
Comments about DID being fake WILL be treated as community guideline violations. Don't do it.
The...unpleasantness in the punchbowl is being handled. Other comments from the same source will be similarly flushed. Everyone else, while I appreciate your passion for calling out a bad take, please let it go now.
The...unpleasantness in the punchbowl is being handled. Other comments from the same source will be similarly flushed. Everyone else, while I appreciate your passion for calling out a bad take, please let it go now.
31
Serena
@Duane I've held my tongue up until this point because I don't really like conflict, but seeing as this is still going on I'm going to try and nicely explain the issue because I've seen you say a number of incorrect things:
1. No one "bitched and cried" until they got their way. If you read the original thread, you can actually see a number of users who have DID just wanted the achievement changed originally as it was an outdated and offensive term, and were displeased with the turnaround time on that caused by the rewrite. Everyone who replied was also extremely respectful and constructive, even if the tone was sometimes harsh during later pages (after promised changes were repeatedly delayed). No one held staff hostage and forced them to rewrite Mono Ri.
2. Until this point, Mori was unambiguously evil. She was a servant of Maleria and her page blurb said "Evil will always prevail." During the 2012 survival plot Nori quite literally handcuffed herself to a radiator to prevent Mori from awakening and helping Ecks. There is an item further down this thread called the "Staff of Good and Evil" that has Mori and Nori's wings on it. The only major lore change that's been made is that Mori is no longer evil. Nori and Mori are still functionally the same.
3. It's not a matter of "hurt feelings" or edgy humor, it's a matter of it just being plain ableist with no punchline, and people were not wrong to call that out. You're a veteran, would you be maintaining this energy if Subeta made a character that read as being hateful or insulting to the troops or the disabled?
I don't intend for this post to be rude, but I don't think you truly grasp the issue people are complaining about here. If it were just petty whining, staff would have just ignored it like the many other items that have gone unchanged on the suggested revisions board. I understand and am sympathetic to the fact that you do not like this change, but it was a necessary one. Like you said: it's a game. Everyone deserves to be able to have fun, and Mono Ri's story previously impeded that for many users. I hope you can better understand why people fought for this after this post.
1. No one "bitched and cried" until they got their way. If you read the original thread, you can actually see a number of users who have DID just wanted the achievement changed originally as it was an outdated and offensive term, and were displeased with the turnaround time on that caused by the rewrite. Everyone who replied was also extremely respectful and constructive, even if the tone was sometimes harsh during later pages (after promised changes were repeatedly delayed). No one held staff hostage and forced them to rewrite Mono Ri.
2. Until this point, Mori was unambiguously evil. She was a servant of Maleria and her page blurb said "Evil will always prevail." During the 2012 survival plot Nori quite literally handcuffed herself to a radiator to prevent Mori from awakening and helping Ecks. There is an item further down this thread called the "Staff of Good and Evil" that has Mori and Nori's wings on it. The only major lore change that's been made is that Mori is no longer evil. Nori and Mori are still functionally the same.
3. It's not a matter of "hurt feelings" or edgy humor, it's a matter of it just being plain ableist with no punchline, and people were not wrong to call that out. You're a veteran, would you be maintaining this energy if Subeta made a character that read as being hateful or insulting to the troops or the disabled?
I don't intend for this post to be rude, but I don't think you truly grasp the issue people are complaining about here. If it were just petty whining, staff would have just ignored it like the many other items that have gone unchanged on the suggested revisions board. I understand and am sympathetic to the fact that you do not like this change, but it was a necessary one. Like you said: it's a game. Everyone deserves to be able to have fun, and Mono Ri's story previously impeded that for many users. I hope you can better understand why people fought for this after this post.
31
Darkrai
"Oh no a change was made so a marginalized group is no longer uncomfortable. What is this world coming to T_T"
Cope. What is wrong with some of you.
Cope. What is wrong with some of you.
32
Narshe
@Duane
Sounds like you care a bit too much considering you responded so often here. It's understandable it makes no sense to you because you're not being affected. This is not about how YOU personally feel when you aren't the targeted audience for this announcement. It was announced however to everyone, because it was a site decision that would be noticeable for daily users. Please try and be at least a bit more understanding when there are multiple discussions from users that were affected and their further insight on the matter.
You could try and be more engaging on why you disagree on the decision instead of being determined to push the narrative that this was an insignificant problem.
Sounds like you care a bit too much considering you responded so often here. It's understandable it makes no sense to you because you're not being affected. This is not about how YOU personally feel when you aren't the targeted audience for this announcement. It was announced however to everyone, because it was a site decision that would be noticeable for daily users. Please try and be at least a bit more understanding when there are multiple discussions from users that were affected and their further insight on the matter.
You could try and be more engaging on why you disagree on the decision instead of being determined to push the narrative that this was an insignificant problem.
17
ChatLunatique
While I was previously almost completely uninformed about DID, I was personally annoyed by the whole darkness/night = evil defamation..., so I applaud these changes for my own personal reasons.
I find myself very thankful for all the Subetans who brought this issue up and fought for it, not only because it brought abought a change that I can appreciate, but it educated me about a disorder that I had not thought about much previously.
Thank you for all your efforts!
...and please let's be civil to people with differing opinions. We may not agree with them, but everyone should be able to express their negative or positive feelings over changes on the site equally.
(no matter how wrong-headed the way they worded their comments may sound)
I find myself very thankful for all the Subetans who brought this issue up and fought for it, not only because it brought abought a change that I can appreciate, but it educated me about a disorder that I had not thought about much previously.
Thank you for all your efforts!
...and please let's be civil to people with differing opinions. We may not agree with them, but everyone should be able to express their negative or positive feelings over changes on the site equally.
(no matter how wrong-headed the way they worded their comments may sound)
10
They
I can't say this is something I ever would have thought about or drawn parallels to, but I'm glad a needed change was made, and I'm touched at the amount of care and compassion for your userbase ♥
6
Higanbana
A touch late to the party, but still wanna throw in my two cents. Thank you to the team for updating these characters and the quests surrounding them to be more inclusive and less reliant on well outdated tropes. While Mori and Nori's situation isn't a one to one parallel to DID and other dissociative disorders, it's easy to see how people with these disorders saw themselves in the characters. You guys could've easily turned a blind eye to this, but instead you not only rose to the occasion of rewriting gods knows how many things, AND you also apologized for the fact that you hadn't been able to tackle the issue.
I myself don't have any dissociative disorders, but I'm good friends with a few systems and seeing this change warms my heart. Mori and Nori's quests are some of my favorites, hella looking forward to doing their quests and seeing the new changes.
Once again, thank you for listening to your community and stepping up to make changes. You all are awesome.
I myself don't have any dissociative disorders, but I'm good friends with a few systems and seeing this change warms my heart. Mori and Nori's quests are some of my favorites, hella looking forward to doing their quests and seeing the new changes.
Once again, thank you for listening to your community and stepping up to make changes. You all are awesome.
6
Malachi
This will be my final comment on this news post because quite frankly, I'm going to be taking the massive L here regarding my talk of diabetes. I apologize immensely for not realizing just how intertwined diabetes is with mental health and social issues (I never thought anything of people checking blood sugars or using insulin or the likes, so I wrongly assumed most people are the same way as I am, but they unfortunately aren't), along with using very harmful terms such as "diabetic" and "control" in relation to diabetes. I had already understood things such as managing your diet/portions and that people with diabetes face physical issues, but I was very uneducated about the matter as a whole and for that, I am very sorry and I understand if I've further hurt people with diabetes because of my ignorance.
If anyone would like to talk further, whether about diabetes (I'd be happy to hear info firsthand tbh) or about the original issue (Mono Ri & DID), please feel free to comment or mail me. Thank you.
If anyone would like to talk further, whether about diabetes (I'd be happy to hear info firsthand tbh) or about the original issue (Mono Ri & DID), please feel free to comment or mail me. Thank you.
13
Malachi
Since I see my comments on diabetes have upset some people, I'm going out of my way right now to read more about it. I apologize in advance for anything I said that was insensitive but my point was not that "diabetics are less important" or "diabetics are perfectly in control of their illness". I intended it as a way of saying "mental illnesses like DID are much more uncontrollable than something like diabetes" and "candy is a choice you make when you know you have diabetes" — however, I'm also aware that it's a matter of portion control, and I did not convey that I knew that.
Like I said, I'm reading up on it now, and I heavily apologize for any misinformation/incorrect statements I said.
Like I said, I'm reading up on it now, and I heavily apologize for any misinformation/incorrect statements I said.
8
Dandelion
I would like to know why the same usernames are still able to spew the same tired, pathetic attempts at hate on every single post about inclusivity. For years, in most cases. Mods, please. Can we just stop these few certain people saying it now? They've had more than enough chances.
26
Roadkill
can we please not spread very easily debunked myths about a disease you blatantly admit you haven't researched literally on a news post about not spreading bad misconceptions about a disease?
11
Rarface
I appreciate this opportunity to learn and have empathy for people I never considered needed it. Thank you, to those who fought for this, for the learning lesson!
4
Malachi
@bonecrivain
The point went absolutely over your head in this case. Physical illnesses are no less serious and not always the person's fault — not once did I put blame on a person for having diabetes. It's the fact if you know something will hurt your health severely, why would you do it? Having diabetes is horrific, no matter which type it is, and I would never say "well you did it to yourself". What I am saying is "you have to be careful about your health so why would you purposely choose to do something harmful".
That's like saying my best friend's shellfish allergy is their fault. lmfao no
But they... you know... choose not to eat shellfish because they know about their allergy and that it'll badly hurt and possibly kill them?
The point went absolutely over your head in this case. Physical illnesses are no less serious and not always the person's fault — not once did I put blame on a person for having diabetes. It's the fact if you know something will hurt your health severely, why would you do it? Having diabetes is horrific, no matter which type it is, and I would never say "well you did it to yourself". What I am saying is "you have to be careful about your health so why would you purposely choose to do something harmful".
That's like saying my best friend's shellfish allergy is their fault. lmfao no
But they... you know... choose not to eat shellfish because they know about their allergy and that it'll badly hurt and possibly kill them?
6
bonecrivain
Making a super long post talking about how physical illnesses are your fault for not finding ways to simply control it and be healthier is really not the win you think it is.
Mental and physical illnesses aren't a contest and that post left a SUPER bad taste in my mouth.
Mental and physical illnesses aren't a contest and that post left a SUPER bad taste in my mouth.
14
Estinien
As one of the users w/ DID, thank you SO much for making this change--it really means a lot to us. The change to the lore is very welcome as well--both including dissociative rep as well as separating Mori and Nori themselves from their previous version. Thank you again for taking accountability, it's very nice to be acknowledged like this in a supportive way.
We also love a lot of the item description updates! AsTheGhostHybrid pointed out -- 
I think this was like this before the update, but this is SO sweet, it really nailed one of the positive sides of our condition.
Malachi summarized our feelings SUPER well on this. In addition to seeing language changed on the site, it's also just a huge confidence booster to see "no, actually, people with dissociative disorders aren't the monsters society at large makes them out to be. We [as singlets/non-systems/etc] WANT to and SUPPORT this change" from both staff and a majority of the users. 💖
We also love a lot of the item description updates! As
TheGhostHybrid pointed out -- Malachi summarized our feelings SUPER well on this. In addition to seeing language changed on the site, it's also just a huge confidence booster to see "no, actually, people with dissociative disorders aren't the monsters society at large makes them out to be. We [as singlets/non-systems/etc] WANT to and SUPPORT this change" from both staff and a majority of the users. 💖
11
Malachi
@bailey Glad I could help!!!
and, on another note - not trying to invalidate diabetics or addicts here, but since it was previously mentioned and whatnot... I really don't mean any offense saying this, but being sarcastic and saying "remove all candy because I'm addicted and have diabetes" has been bothering me.
1. it's mocking actual addictions, let's be real (which, yes, I'm guilty of making those jokes and I'll get to that)
2. it's implying that diabetic people don't have the ability to control their eating/diet/etc and their blood sugar and whatnot
Like I said, I am not trying to invalidate anyone with diabetes or addictions! Diabetes is, and please correct me if I'm wrong, a disorder(?) that has been thoroughly studied and has fairly clear-cut ways to take care of it. Now, while I wouldn't think "candy addict" is a diabetic stereotype (once again, correct me if wrong, please), I am aware that "people with diabetes are usually fat people" is a common misconception, if not a stereotype. Which, guess what — Subeta staff have changed item descriptions that poked fun at overweight people!
With diabetes, there's enough information out there to properly care for it, meaning it is ACTIVELY your choice to eat candy, knowing fully well that it WILL possibly harm you. Candy isn't a problematic item (unless the description says something insensitive, which in that case, tell that to staff???) due to the fact it is a CHOICE.
With dissociative disorders, it's not as clear what will outright cause the disorder to harm those affected, and while we can medicate ourselves and get therapy, it doesn't always work and sometimes even causes more harm than good (yes, there are doctors out there who both intentionally or unintentionally harm their already vulnerable patients, sadly). We don't choose to switch between alters (contrary to the belief of TikTok kids lmao) and we don't have the means to never lose control and never have amnesia and never destroy relationships with our mental illness. We don't have the control over our mental disorders like many physical disorders do.
As for addiction jokes: it's a perfect example of what normalizing these things (such as making Mori/Nori multiple personalities through uneducated wording) does for us as people. I'm guilty of making such jokes, many people are, because such a heavy and harmful topic has become normalized and downplayed in today's society. Same with depression, anxiety, S/H, etc jokes. Same with DID, schizophrenia, bipolar, OCD, psychopathy, etc. Same with murder, domestic violence, stealing, destroying property, etc.
When you normalize the language and approach of a certain topic in a certain way, it... well, it becomes the norm. So by adjusting Mori and Nori's wording, it removes the normalization of multiple personalities being "good" and "evil".
god I am so sorry I post a whole ass essay every reply but it seriously just... annoys me how ignorant people can be about real topics that ruin lives and are unwilling to learn better
(also I know I said it so many times but P L E A S E correct me if ANYTHING I said is wrong. I'm not 100% knowledgeable on diabetes and going off what I know through past and rather brief conversations my mother, who is a nurse practitioner. I'm just a guy with a single brain cell smacking a keyboard like it owes me money.)
and, on another note - not trying to invalidate diabetics or addicts here, but since it was previously mentioned and whatnot... I really don't mean any offense saying this, but being sarcastic and saying "remove all candy because I'm addicted and have diabetes" has been bothering me.
1. it's mocking actual addictions, let's be real (which, yes, I'm guilty of making those jokes and I'll get to that)
2. it's implying that diabetic people don't have the ability to control their eating/diet/etc and their blood sugar and whatnot
Like I said, I am not trying to invalidate anyone with diabetes or addictions! Diabetes is, and please correct me if I'm wrong, a disorder(?) that has been thoroughly studied and has fairly clear-cut ways to take care of it. Now, while I wouldn't think "candy addict" is a diabetic stereotype (once again, correct me if wrong, please), I am aware that "people with diabetes are usually fat people" is a common misconception, if not a stereotype. Which, guess what — Subeta staff have changed item descriptions that poked fun at overweight people!
With diabetes, there's enough information out there to properly care for it, meaning it is ACTIVELY your choice to eat candy, knowing fully well that it WILL possibly harm you. Candy isn't a problematic item (unless the description says something insensitive, which in that case, tell that to staff???) due to the fact it is a CHOICE.
With dissociative disorders, it's not as clear what will outright cause the disorder to harm those affected, and while we can medicate ourselves and get therapy, it doesn't always work and sometimes even causes more harm than good (yes, there are doctors out there who both intentionally or unintentionally harm their already vulnerable patients, sadly). We don't choose to switch between alters (contrary to the belief of TikTok kids lmao) and we don't have the means to never lose control and never have amnesia and never destroy relationships with our mental illness. We don't have the control over our mental disorders like many physical disorders do.
As for addiction jokes: it's a perfect example of what normalizing these things (such as making Mori/Nori multiple personalities through uneducated wording) does for us as people. I'm guilty of making such jokes, many people are, because such a heavy and harmful topic has become normalized and downplayed in today's society. Same with depression, anxiety, S/H, etc jokes. Same with DID, schizophrenia, bipolar, OCD, psychopathy, etc. Same with murder, domestic violence, stealing, destroying property, etc.
When you normalize the language and approach of a certain topic in a certain way, it... well, it becomes the norm. So by adjusting Mori and Nori's wording, it removes the normalization of multiple personalities being "good" and "evil".
god I am so sorry I post a whole ass essay every reply but it seriously just... annoys me how ignorant people can be about real topics that ruin lives and are unwilling to learn better
(also I know I said it so many times but P L E A S E correct me if ANYTHING I said is wrong. I'm not 100% knowledgeable on diabetes and going off what I know through past and rather brief conversations my mother, who is a nurse practitioner. I'm just a guy with a single brain cell smacking a keyboard like it owes me money.)
11
sickestambition
I don't personally see much need for the change as I never saw nori/mori as any sort of parallel to DID, but I can see where people would feel that way I guess. it's just made up stories on a virtual pet site at the end of the day, so it's of no issue to me if it changes to make people feel more comfortable
6
souleater
This is a wonderful--and huge--change! Thank you for devoting multiple news posts about it, and a very thorough explanation. I personally do not have DID, nor did I realize the connection between Nori and Mori to it but that's because it wasn't something actively on my mind. It's beautiful to see the community and staff communicating in such a respectful and educating way, both being very patient and receptive with one another--love to see it! However, I do have one concern about the forum title achievement; it's literally the only title I use because it's the only one I love (some of the others are nice and I like them, but none resonate with my username as much as "The Cursed," imo). I understand that it's odd to keep the title associated with completing 1000 Nori and Mori quests, even if it is retired, after putting in so much work to not associate diction like cursed with the character anymore. I know that it's still active atm but that doesn't seem to be the case for the future, nor would it make sense to keep. I saw that Amber has stated perhaps having it for a future achievement, which is certainly a solution, I just don't want it to be difficult to get again when I already have it and have used it ever since completing the achievement. I am not trying to be disrespectful by mitigating or diminishing the huge amount of work and discussions that have gone into making this positive change; I would just really like to still have the title in some shape or form.
Amber has stated perhaps having it for a future achievement, which is certainly a solution, I just don't want it to be difficult to get again when I already have it and have used it ever since completing the achievement. I am not trying to be disrespectful by mitigating or diminishing the huge amount of work and discussions that have gone into making this positive change; I would just really like to still have the title in some shape or form.
9
NoLongerHuman
@Amber~ i've seen you kinda bash yourself a few times here and please, don't do that. you're bringing changes that make people happy/comfortable, there's a learning curve (and many items to take care of). we appreciate your work. u3u
23
ToddyToddyz
I love how much care the whole team and community puts into Subeta. I’ve been playing since I was a kid and it always felt like a respectful and wholesome place. Thank you! ❤️
9
TheGhostHybrid
@Amber, wow! The new descriptions are great and don’t either vilify or deify, which is perfect.
Please don’t call yourself dumb! This was a big change to make, and we’re all only human, so it’s natural that things slipped through the cracks, hence your request for people to bring up bits that were missed.
You are not dumb.
Please don’t call yourself dumb! This was a big change to make, and we’re all only human, so it’s natural that things slipped through the cracks, hence your request for people to bring up bits that were missed.
You are not dumb.
25
Amber
@Laurey The journal still works, since Mono Ri spent up to her 18th birthday constructing the statue.
As far as the Cursed/Blessed items, I'm talking with the artist about it! We'll rename them but we're sorting out exactly how we want to word it. My first thought was dawn/dusk related but she pointed out dusk is usually more blue. It'll be updated in the next few days, though! (She has family visiting and I'm about to go into another Jewish holiday so I can't guarantee it'll be RIGHT away).
@TheGhostHybrid I updated a lot of those More items! I'll do another run-through of Nori items later as well. I as dumb and only searched 'cursed' in items and descriptions and not Mori and Nori individually when going back over all the possible item combinations.
As far as the Cursed/Blessed items, I'm talking with the artist about it! We'll rename them but we're sorting out exactly how we want to word it. My first thought was dawn/dusk related but she pointed out dusk is usually more blue. It'll be updated in the next few days, though! (She has family visiting and I'm about to go into another Jewish holiday so I can't guarantee it'll be RIGHT away).
@TheGhostHybrid I updated a lot of those More items! I'll do another run-through of Nori items later as well. I as dumb and only searched 'cursed' in items and descriptions and not Mori and Nori individually when going back over all the possible item combinations.
9
Arcana_Apprentice
No surprise someone with their HA made to look like the Joker is out here acting like the worst possible example of humanity.
28
Efferd
Feels necessary to add my voice to those happy for the change! I was following the thread for a while and I'm glad this second news post was added in the end. It's unbelievable that some people still comment with this negativity, but it's also good to see that a majority understands and supports the change.
10
Akita
Idk anything. I don't even quest. But changes are fun, so thanks!
Also, someone get Duane a shot of glucagon before letting 'em back online.
Also, someone get Duane a shot of glucagon before letting 'em back online.
10
bailey
Up until today I guess I had absolutely no understanding of this disorder and when referring to it in conversation I would call it “multiple personalities” …. I really never thought that I would learn something so informative from this site. I am glad to have gained that knowledge, thank you!
@Malachi - much needed. This explanation was super helpful. I was about to try and read through the whole forum in order to better understand why this change was made. Thank you for posting an easy to comprehend view of DID. May have avoided a situation in the future where I could have offended someone without realizing
@Malachi - much needed. This explanation was super helpful. I was about to try and read through the whole forum in order to better understand why this change was made. Thank you for posting an easy to comprehend view of DID. May have avoided a situation in the future where I could have offended someone without realizing
15
Narshe
I dont want to be that person but damn am I really seeing, "what is this world coming to" comments? Like why can't you just be supportive and understanding instead of questioning so negatively as to why subtea would incorporate changes regarding outdated terms? If yall seriously had this much of a problem, where were you when the Mori/Nori discussion was going on cause like...it certainly wasn't in the thread. Honestly, its too little and too late to be 'disappointed' and I hope you continue to feel this way if a small revision is really going to throw you off.
38
jem
thank you to the folks who advocated! and thank you for learning from this and committing to doing better.
10
Roadkill
@Duane
for someone complaining about others being bothered you seem very sensitive about this change happening, to the point of several comments in a very short period of time. perhaps you should consider taking your own advice and go somewhere else where you don't have to be upset about this change? decompress in a safer space for you?
for someone complaining about others being bothered you seem very sensitive about this change happening, to the point of several comments in a very short period of time. perhaps you should consider taking your own advice and go somewhere else where you don't have to be upset about this change? decompress in a safer space for you?
30
Malachi
Oh, one thing I forgot (MY BAD I am a chatterbox), is that saying "they're just drawings" or "they're just pixels" is... well, no offense, but it's ignorant. Media shapes society, whether it's real people or fictional ones. There's the simple examples of political propaganda used for brainwashing and skinny waist models being advertised to young girls, both of which are very harmful to the people consuming these things, but there's also the very real examples of Jaws convincing people that sharks are all mindless killers (leading to countless sharks being unreasonably hunted and killed), the Slenderman stabbing (two girls stabbed their friend and claimed it was to appease the creepypasta figure Slenderman), and Randy Stair (this one might be a little more iffy, but he shot and killed people, claiming he would be joining his favorite Danny Phantom character and OCs in the afterlife).
Fiction does not equal reality, but it does heavily influence it in various ways.
(p.s. Go listen to the song "Victoria's Secret" by Jax. It's hilarious and related to the topic at hand.)
Fiction does not equal reality, but it does heavily influence it in various ways.
(p.s. Go listen to the song "Victoria's Secret" by Jax. It's hilarious and related to the topic at hand.)
22
Malachi
A'ight, I was going to leave it at my "wow I like this change", but I'll be the SJW keyboard smasher posting a half-assed essay since I see some people don't understand why this change is so important.
Also, you can be concerned about more than one issue at a time, while still working towards fixing them gradually. One issue getting fixed doesn't mean others won't be fixed if you keep rallying for it with valid arguments.
The thing with Dissociative Identity Disorder (and related disorders, such as my Otherwise Specified Dissociative Disorder Type 1) is that we've been seen as "normal people with evil sides". That is a HORRIBLE take on the disorder because it implies that we all have our "good" sides that people see first, then our "bad" sides that will lash out and hurt others. This is wrong - I can vouch for this because I'm a system and have "multiple personalities" (which btw, they're not different personalities, but that's a huge scientific explanation I wouldn't be good at dumbing down), all of which have their pros and cons. I rejected two of my alters ("personalities") for a very long time due to mistaking them for being "evil" and in the long run, it was more detrimental than beneficial to my mental health to do that. I ended up accepting them and being better for it.
The stereotype basically portrays all of the alters a person can have with this disorder are evil or at the very least very morally grey in an unpleasant way. I have three alters who take very good care of me, who are all friendly to everyone that they choose to interact with, and all six of my alters have their "goods" and their "bads" just like real people.
Horror movies are NOTORIOUS for this awful stereotype and it HAS caused people with dissociative disorders issues. If someone says "I have diabetes", most people won't bat an eyelash. But if I say "I have a dissociative disorder", you know how many unaware people would side-eye me and think I could flip my shit on them and try to hurt them... on the basis that I've got "another personality", an idea that's been demonized by countless pieces of media MEANT to scare and horrify the human race for entertainment? That's MEANT to put a fear in you that you didn't know you could have? We're not something to fear on the basis we have a mental illness - caused by having intense trauma to begin with, mind you.
If your immediate response is "people get too offended these days", you've definitely got it good and I'm jealous of that. You've never had to question if you're unlovable, if you can't be helped, because you have multiple "personalities" (please note I say "personalities" for the sake of people who don't know, but they're actually called alters) that people assume make you an entirely different person that will hurt them. I was scared as hell to get diagnosed with OSDD-1 because of the way people both demonize it... and romanticize it. I won't get into the latter because hoo boy that's a can of worms in and of itself.
If your immediate response is "well why haven't you fixed (other important thing)"... then... rally for it??? If people can get the ball rolling on the representation of DID, then you can get the ball rolling on any ongoing issue, as long as it's a genuine concern that affects a group of people. It's not impossible. Subeta staff aren't the equivalent of the American government (insert American healthcare system meme here).
For those of you who don't/didn't understand and simply asked for info, you guys are absolutely beautiful and I hope you live fulfilling lives, because y'all are what we need. We need people willing to try understanding us, and if not that, at least respecting that we aren't in control of the disorders we have.
For those of you who have dissociative disorders, we got this. We can be functioning members of society too. We're not two sides of a coin that'll flip at random and be "good" or "evil". We aren't irredeemable, unlovable, or unacceptable because of our trauma. We deserve to be treated as humans too.
And finally,
Also, you can be concerned about more than one issue at a time, while still working towards fixing them gradually. One issue getting fixed doesn't mean others won't be fixed if you keep rallying for it with valid arguments.
The thing with Dissociative Identity Disorder (and related disorders, such as my Otherwise Specified Dissociative Disorder Type 1) is that we've been seen as "normal people with evil sides". That is a HORRIBLE take on the disorder because it implies that we all have our "good" sides that people see first, then our "bad" sides that will lash out and hurt others. This is wrong - I can vouch for this because I'm a system and have "multiple personalities" (which btw, they're not different personalities, but that's a huge scientific explanation I wouldn't be good at dumbing down), all of which have their pros and cons. I rejected two of my alters ("personalities") for a very long time due to mistaking them for being "evil" and in the long run, it was more detrimental than beneficial to my mental health to do that. I ended up accepting them and being better for it.
The stereotype basically portrays all of the alters a person can have with this disorder are evil or at the very least very morally grey in an unpleasant way. I have three alters who take very good care of me, who are all friendly to everyone that they choose to interact with, and all six of my alters have their "goods" and their "bads" just like real people.
Horror movies are NOTORIOUS for this awful stereotype and it HAS caused people with dissociative disorders issues. If someone says "I have diabetes", most people won't bat an eyelash. But if I say "I have a dissociative disorder", you know how many unaware people would side-eye me and think I could flip my shit on them and try to hurt them... on the basis that I've got "another personality", an idea that's been demonized by countless pieces of media MEANT to scare and horrify the human race for entertainment? That's MEANT to put a fear in you that you didn't know you could have? We're not something to fear on the basis we have a mental illness - caused by having intense trauma to begin with, mind you.
If your immediate response is "people get too offended these days", you've definitely got it good and I'm jealous of that. You've never had to question if you're unlovable, if you can't be helped, because you have multiple "personalities" (please note I say "personalities" for the sake of people who don't know, but they're actually called alters) that people assume make you an entirely different person that will hurt them. I was scared as hell to get diagnosed with OSDD-1 because of the way people both demonize it... and romanticize it. I won't get into the latter because hoo boy that's a can of worms in and of itself.
If your immediate response is "well why haven't you fixed (other important thing)"... then... rally for it??? If people can get the ball rolling on the representation of DID, then you can get the ball rolling on any ongoing issue, as long as it's a genuine concern that affects a group of people. It's not impossible. Subeta staff aren't the equivalent of the American government (insert American healthcare system meme here).
For those of you who don't/didn't understand and simply asked for info, you guys are absolutely beautiful and I hope you live fulfilling lives, because y'all are what we need. We need people willing to try understanding us, and if not that, at least respecting that we aren't in control of the disorders we have.
For those of you who have dissociative disorders, we got this. We can be functioning members of society too. We're not two sides of a coin that'll flip at random and be "good" or "evil". We aren't irredeemable, unlovable, or unacceptable because of our trauma. We deserve to be treated as humans too.
And finally,
45
PeachGoblin
Great change to see!
Sad to see how toxic some people can be over a simple change to be more inclusive and less harmful.
Sad to see how toxic some people can be over a simple change to be more inclusive and less harmful.
14
Just_a_Noodle
As someone with an OSDD diagnosis, thank you so much for such a thoughtful gesture and change! <3
8
Malachi
As someone diagnosed with OSDD-1 (a disorder very close to DID), I really truly appreciate this change. :D Y'all make my heart warm, thank you for listening to your community. ♥
10
Laurey
Okay never mind about some of my previous comment, I found the Subetapedia article and it cleared it up somewhat I think.
But still some of those items I listed may need to be adjusted.
But still some of those items I listed may need to be adjusted.
1
Fenren
Wow so many comments. To add to the many opinions here: I think Duality sounds cool and DID should be represented without being stereotypically shown as evil. That being said, don't be afraid to make deep DID characters! Even if their condition is mystical and magical. It would be cool to see more of Nori and Mori and their interactions with other characters.
And i think it's cool y'all recognize that better organization for the staff is needed, i'm really not complaining but i want the game to bring more players in, and for that to happen the game needs regular content updates and mechanics added. I know it can be overwhelming but Subeta has so much potential to keep growing and i'm excited to see where it goes. <3
And i think it's cool y'all recognize that better organization for the staff is needed, i'm really not complaining but i want the game to bring more players in, and for that to happen the game needs regular content updates and mechanics added. I know it can be overwhelming but Subeta has so much potential to keep growing and i'm excited to see where it goes. <3
7
Laurey
Looking into it more now, it is still a bit unclear about what the current lore actually is? I want to be clear, I'm not opposed to the changes or anything like that, I'm just still a bit slightly confused as to whether they are still meant to be one "person" or how exactly it works.
Because there are some other items that seem to sort of reference the old lore with the cursed/blessed thing and the conflict, so I'm not sure if these are meant to be changed too or not.
Pinging @Amber to take a look once you're working again~
Because there are some other items that seem to sort of reference the old lore with the cursed/blessed thing and the conflict, so I'm not sure if these are meant to be changed too or not.
???
2
Serena
@Christopher While I'm by no means justifying it, this was a change to a lore article and a couple dozen/hundred blurbs and items across the site, and it took about a year or two for that. Relatively speaking, captioning every image across site is going to be a massive undertaking. I also checked the forums and I didn't see any topic calling attention to lack of accessibility so staff could very well not be aware of there being a problem - and again, that's not to say this is right, but this particular change only happened because users with DID fought for it for a very long time. While I don't need accommodations myself, I'd 100% support more accessibility features as it's a win for everyone.
24
Arcana_Apprentice
TY staff. And all those people-who I've blocked-thanks for being ableist on main so we know who to block.
As for the person who was saying "great you did one thing, why not x thing"?
You are the exact definition of seeing something positive and being upset it wasn't something you wanted, and thinking all positive things should cater to you first.
As for the person who was saying "great you did one thing, why not x thing"?
You are the exact definition of seeing something positive and being upset it wasn't something you wanted, and thinking all positive things should cater to you first.
13
Archmage
@Kurai_Okami
Relatable. I also have autism and sometimes simple changes can be exhausting. The worse is when changes happen without an explanation, because the reason should be obvious and everyone should get it, and if someone doesn't get it, then it means they are bad people and should feel ashamed of themselves.
...As if I don't get things out of choice.
But at least the Subeta staff tried to further explain the whole change process, and they will also keep a "cursed" title, so that's good. Having the whys and the hows, it is easier to understand what happened to the "outer world" in a way I can make adjustments to my "inner world" and my "navigation map".
So, if it helps with mentally reorganizing things, the way I'm going about this is: There's old Nori and Mori (magic references), and new Nori and Mori (psychology references). I understand it is important for some people to replace the old for the new so they feel better represented, but I like my interpretation of the old magical/2 souls in 1 body version, so I'll take the aspects I like from that and save it for some future oc, this way I don't feel like something was lost in my inner world. c:
(Already have the idea, probably a demon lord and a hero died at the same time in a final battle that destroyed their original world, and now their souls are trapped together and only a magical event as powerful as that battle could maybe release their souls, but something that powerful would kill a lot of people and the hero refuses/sabotages the demon lord plans? They could eventually fall for each other and that would be powerful enough to release them idk, not very original but can be cute?)
Relatable. I also have autism and sometimes simple changes can be exhausting. The worse is when changes happen without an explanation, because the reason should be obvious and everyone should get it, and if someone doesn't get it, then it means they are bad people and should feel ashamed of themselves.
...As if I don't get things out of choice.
But at least the Subeta staff tried to further explain the whole change process, and they will also keep a "cursed" title, so that's good. Having the whys and the hows, it is easier to understand what happened to the "outer world" in a way I can make adjustments to my "inner world" and my "navigation map".
So, if it helps with mentally reorganizing things, the way I'm going about this is: There's old Nori and Mori (magic references), and new Nori and Mori (psychology references). I understand it is important for some people to replace the old for the new so they feel better represented, but I like my interpretation of the old magical/2 souls in 1 body version, so I'll take the aspects I like from that and save it for some future oc, this way I don't feel like something was lost in my inner world. c:
(Already have the idea, probably a demon lord and a hero died at the same time in a final battle that destroyed their original world, and now their souls are trapped together and only a magical event as powerful as that battle could maybe release their souls, but something that powerful would kill a lot of people and the hero refuses/sabotages the demon lord plans? They could eventually fall for each other and that would be powerful enough to release them idk, not very original but can be cute?)
5
Christopher
It's cool that you're willing to self-flagellate to this level over fantasy DID and everything but the site still doesn't have basic ADA accoms like alt text for images.
26
Serena
I came back to this post to see how things were going and while the response is overwhelmingly positive, I am a tiny bit disappointed by the comments calling users oversensitive for this. Try to put yourself in the shoes of someone with DID experiencing Mono Ri - would you be happy if Subeta had a character that included direct allusions to (the achievement name, the original complaint) and demonized a group you're part of? I think it was the right call on the part of staff, even if not everyone will be affected by it.
27
bunny
@Cheshire you know, well stated and i understand your intentions but the language that you used did not convey that. it's just as important to note the people with comments like yours because it's overall mischaracterizing the userbase as all blatantly disrespectful because you're responding with strong, reactionary words because you personally want to aggressively make your point known. even though your intentions come from a place of being defensive for people that can't defend themselves, here they were defended, here they were properly attended. the scenario you responded to didn't happen. i think everyone has seen a lot of that sort of white knighting and they know it's reductive, you can make your point without going on the offensive, you can speak plainly without namecalling.
4
Cheshire
@bunny I am not the only person with this mindset, but I’m the only person you felt the need to call out directly? Minimizing the handful of horrible hot takes in this thread to “one person out of 90” isn’t accurate. You are right though, people who poopoo a change that never affected them negatively, and continues to not affect them negatively does rustle my jimmies. It reads more as “I don’t care for this change because I LIKE the hurtful language and want people to feel marginalized.” IMO that's not it, and I felt like speaking up. What I didn’t feel like doing was coming at them with pings to start a fight. I don’t want to have a conversation with them. My opinion won’t change their world view. But it will perhaps help the people who were upset by the gross comments feel like they have support. That is what is worth more to me.
25
bunny
@fun then maybe you should address those people individually, because what @Cheshire did was an ambiguous generalisation that was so oot that it was offensive and they did it to address an argument that wasn't anywhere in these comments, they did it just for the benefit of saying it, for the joy of being sassynright on the internet. and by pixel people you know i mean the drawings, right? because again, you faced zero opposition to this. you had support, you had a whole thank you news post. i'm not sure what will help you to maybe stop picking fights with people that agree with and support you, but i'll end on my own general statement that ma'am this is a wendy's. a virtual pet site, the tools to help with emotional regulation will not be found here
7
peachette
yeah bunny that one person needs to be acknowledged. i don't like to block people but what was said is seriously offensive. and Cheshire had to word things that way to avoid directly calling them out, pretty sure. though there is more than one person being an ass in the comments here. just one that really stands out.
i'm tired of people being able to say shitty things and we are supposed to ignore it. but i'll stop because i don't want the comments locked or whatever.
Cheshire had to word things that way to avoid directly calling them out, pretty sure. though there is more than one person being an ass in the comments here. just one that really stands out.i'm tired of people being able to say shitty things and we are supposed to ignore it. but i'll stop because i don't want the comments locked or whatever.
18
fun
@bunny they're right and i personally am happy to see people speaking against the hate and ignorance in this comment section whether you think it necessary or not. it's not "white knighting for the pixel people". real people were involved and hurt and multiple people in this comment section have shown that they don't care about the people that were effected and are repeatedly making not only ignorant but hateful comments. we are not just "pixel people" bestie
33
KimC
Color me confused. Are Mori and Nori REALLY examples of DID? Their condition is mystical, not organic. It's more like they're actually two separate people, not aspects of the same person. Even their appearance is naturally different. Also, what happens to the other when one is active? Are they shunted off to another dimension or what?
23
bunny
@Cheshire it's worse when people do this though, because it was like, one person out of 90 comments of positivity bestie. you're so riled and hyped on fighting on the internet that you're calling imaginary people out. you surely did tell us that you passed on the oppourtunity to read the room and with your whole chest out said Some of you must never have been discriminated against and it shows. Ignorance isn't a cute look for you. you don't need to white knight for the pixel people i'm fully deceased
6
wyrm
while i always read the quests / characters as "innocent" (having played subeta for over a decade, i know harming users with DID was the last thing on the staff's mind), i love this update! i don't have DID myself, but have several friends with it and i know some of their alters are super shy because of how hostile people can be.
i completely relate to having too much to do with too little help... and admittedly have been rather critical to staff in the past despite this (which i'm not proud of). not that i don't think being critical has its place! it does on stuff like this, and i really appreciate staff taking accountability (the algonquin plushie is a great example timeframe wise) and listening to users on this, and kudos to the users that kept pushing for the change.
i completely relate to having too much to do with too little help... and admittedly have been rather critical to staff in the past despite this (which i'm not proud of). not that i don't think being critical has its place! it does on stuff like this, and i really appreciate staff taking accountability (the algonquin plushie is a great example timeframe wise) and listening to users on this, and kudos to the users that kept pushing for the change.
4
Raru
Thank you for a lovely update! I always find it very refreshing when staff can admit to mistakes or problematic things. It feels a lot safer to be around staff that can do that rather than staff that refuse to acknowledge it. Subeta, at least to me, is such a safe space and in my limited interaction on forums (I'm very antisocial and ADHD), has also been a very positive-focused space.
Thanks for always working on the site and making it the best it can be!
Thanks for always working on the site and making it the best it can be!
7
GalaxyEyes
Is there anywhere that compares the old vs new lore, quest texts, and item descriptions? Honestly just want to see all the differences out of pure curiosity.
8
Amber
Hi, here to answer a few things before I do all the Autumn things and then back to my shabbat time.
@Ravage @Pinocchio For the title - yes! We're not deleting 'cursed' as a forum title, we're just not having it associated with the Duality quests any more.
@stars_water Oh! I must've thought it matched up with the cursed minion because of the colors. I'll adjust that later.
@AnaSolidor @Lia It was important to our users to address this. It doesn't hurt the to own up to mistakes on my part, so I'm happy to do this for users. While this is mostly centered around the issue of changing Mori and Nori, it is also about the fact that it took well over a year to address something that could've been done a lot faster. I posted multiple times things like "Oh, we're working on it" or "We're a small team it's not been forgotten". This is criticism we've had before for things and mostly we've brushed it off but I think it's best to address it and move forward.
@TheGhostHybrid Thanks! Will attack these when I'm really working tomorrow.
@Ravage @Pinocchio For the title - yes! We're not deleting 'cursed' as a forum title, we're just not having it associated with the Duality quests any more.
@stars_water Oh! I must've thought it matched up with the cursed minion because of the colors. I'll adjust that later.
@AnaSolidor @Lia It was important to our users to address this. It doesn't hurt the to own up to mistakes on my part, so I'm happy to do this for users. While this is mostly centered around the issue of changing Mori and Nori, it is also about the fact that it took well over a year to address something that could've been done a lot faster. I posted multiple times things like "Oh, we're working on it" or "We're a small team it's not been forgotten". This is criticism we've had before for things and mostly we've brushed it off but I think it's best to address it and move forward.
@TheGhostHybrid Thanks! Will attack these when I'm really working tomorrow.
10
Roadkill
thank you for listening to users on their frustrations and doing this overhaul. there's always going to be at least some complainers but I'm comforted that the reception to this change is for the most part both positive and respectful. <3
also for those that can't remember where it is, the block list is hidden in the friends tab here:
https://subeta.net/friends.php?act=blocked
also for those that can't remember where it is, the block list is hidden in the friends tab here:
https://subeta.net/friends.php?act=blocked
21
Cheshire
Anything changes here and the jerks come out of the woodwork. Jist because something isn't about you and you "don't get it" doesn't mean you can't afford some respect to the people who it did have a negative effect on. If it didn't bother you before, cool. You don't need to say that to try and minimize or devalue how good a seemingly small change can be. Not everyone is the same. Yes, some things are hurtful to some groups of people. Yes, changing our language as time progresses to accommodate and help people feel safe is a good thing. Some of you must never have been discriminated against and it shows. Ignorance isn't a cute look for you. I appreciate subeta making an effort to be inclusive. It's never a bad thing to learn and change our behavior. Some of you could take a lesson from staff and make any effort to learn something new without being an absolute turd about it.
48
Opossun
this is such a good change. makes me feel positive about the future of the site :) thank you so much for the work and thank you for the post!
3
Bastit
I don't use to write on the news, but I want to celebrate Subeta giving a new step on the right direction again. Acknowledging the minorities and respecting their spaces is fundamental. 💜
And for those of you that feel that "Everyone is getting offended by everything now", you may want to read patiently the comments, the original thread, and all the reasons people had to raise their voice in favor of this change.
Nobody is "o f f e n d e d", people like to be treated with love and respect. You may are not affected by the problem, that doesn't mean it doesn't exist.
Inform yourself, listen to others, practice empathy. And, if after all that, you still think that treating people with respect and dignity is wrong, well... I'm sorry for you.
And for those of you that feel that "Everyone is getting offended by everything now", you may want to read patiently the comments, the original thread, and all the reasons people had to raise their voice in favor of this change.
Nobody is "o f f e n d e d", people like to be treated with love and respect. You may are not affected by the problem, that doesn't mean it doesn't exist.
Inform yourself, listen to others, practice empathy. And, if after all that, you still think that treating people with respect and dignity is wrong, well... I'm sorry for you.
47
sunflowerscythe
I have DID and this is a HUGE, I MEAN ABSOLUTELY MASSIVELY cool move on y'alls part! I use this website to let my alters get a chance to express themselves through the wardrobe and this website has been a safe haven. That fact that you all care for people with 'scary' mental illness and... Just this is so amazing and kind and how everyone should respond when told their being offensive.
21
Kurai_Okami
And I thought it would be better to separate this into a individual post.
Any ideas for a forum signature? I don’t think it’s possible to take and change “Cursed___” to “Duality__”. Of course, technically this can be done. But if we consider the signature separately from the character's history, it has a particular unique meaning that is important to many players.
Remind me how you could get this achievement? Do a total of 1000 of their quests?
If so, then at the moment, the following option comes to my mind: make this signature as a reward (for example) for 500 general quests, and Duality for 1000.
Because at first Mori and Nori thought it was their curse, but then they sorted themselves out and all that. It is just a though. Maybe someone (even staff) already figured how to make all that.
Kinda reminds me a quote:
Aziraphale: "Well, I'll be damned."
Crowley: "It’s not that bad when you get used to it."
(c.) Good Omens =)
Any ideas for a forum signature? I don’t think it’s possible to take and change “Cursed___” to “Duality__”. Of course, technically this can be done. But if we consider the signature separately from the character's history, it has a particular unique meaning that is important to many players.
Remind me how you could get this achievement? Do a total of 1000 of their quests?
If so, then at the moment, the following option comes to my mind: make this signature as a reward (for example) for 500 general quests, and Duality for 1000.
Because at first Mori and Nori thought it was their curse, but then they sorted themselves out and all that. It is just a though. Maybe someone (even staff) already figured how to make all that.
Kinda reminds me a quote:
Aziraphale: "Well, I'll be damned."
Crowley: "It’s not that bad when you get used to it."
(c.) Good Omens =)
0
Kurai_Okami
Okay, in general, I kinda fine with all these changes. This site has always seemed very inclusive to me. But there are a couple of things that I can’t help but think: “am I really the only one with that? o_O”
1) It's a little strange for me to consider fictional magical creatures solely from a human point of view. And apply human laws to them, etc.
2) For some reason I didn’t consider Nori and Mori as one whole being o__O Perhaps I didn’t delve too deeply into it? (I'm generally not the most attentive person. For years I thought it was Marelia instead of Maleria xD). Don't know. Over the years that I have been on this site (almost 15 years), I have somehow passively formed a certain opinion or rather a feeling about them.
That they are more like siamese twins, but not literally? Like it’s not that night comes, Nori falls asleep, Mori wakes up and goes to dye their hair and change clothes. No. More like that these are literally two different beings who are forced to share one vessel? And, of course, the change happens magically. And okay, if you think about it like that, I guess, it looks like a Dissociative Identity Disorder. But I thought that initially they were separate creatures, which, through magical manipulations, became conditionally one. Due to the fact that they constantly quarreled, fought, and perhaps almost destroyed the world a couple of times. After which Shinwa (or someone else. maybe Shinwa along with Maleria) joined forces and punished them in this way. Like, until they learn to live peacefully with eachother, they will not separate back + as long as they “appear” in the world one by one, they do not pose much danger to its well-being. Something like that.
3) Just in case, I would like to add (I came across something on this topic): I never thought that Nori was good and Mori was bad, because in my understanding, Light does not equal Good, just as Darkness does not equal Evil.
4) Well, since we are here sharing our experiences and mental characteristics... xD
As a person with ADHD, high anxiety (and autism in question), who does not cope well with sudden changes in the picture of the world... This all stressed me out a little. About the same as, at one time, a very global change in the style of depicting characters. Something like: “ahh! help! They’re changing something here! O_O”
So I don't mean that these are changes for the better or for the worse. It’s just that the very fact of any changes is a little “O__O!” and sometimes it takes time to adapt.
p.s. Just in case: english is not my native language. Sorry if some of the sentences sound a little confusing and crooked ^^'
1) It's a little strange for me to consider fictional magical creatures solely from a human point of view. And apply human laws to them, etc.
2) For some reason I didn’t consider Nori and Mori as one whole being o__O Perhaps I didn’t delve too deeply into it? (I'm generally not the most attentive person. For years I thought it was Marelia instead of Maleria xD). Don't know. Over the years that I have been on this site (almost 15 years), I have somehow passively formed a certain opinion or rather a feeling about them.
That they are more like siamese twins, but not literally? Like it’s not that night comes, Nori falls asleep, Mori wakes up and goes to dye their hair and change clothes. No. More like that these are literally two different beings who are forced to share one vessel? And, of course, the change happens magically. And okay, if you think about it like that, I guess, it looks like a Dissociative Identity Disorder. But I thought that initially they were separate creatures, which, through magical manipulations, became conditionally one. Due to the fact that they constantly quarreled, fought, and perhaps almost destroyed the world a couple of times. After which Shinwa (or someone else. maybe Shinwa along with Maleria) joined forces and punished them in this way. Like, until they learn to live peacefully with eachother, they will not separate back + as long as they “appear” in the world one by one, they do not pose much danger to its well-being. Something like that.
3) Just in case, I would like to add (I came across something on this topic): I never thought that Nori was good and Mori was bad, because in my understanding, Light does not equal Good, just as Darkness does not equal Evil.
4) Well, since we are here sharing our experiences and mental characteristics... xD
As a person with ADHD, high anxiety (and autism in question), who does not cope well with sudden changes in the picture of the world... This all stressed me out a little. About the same as, at one time, a very global change in the style of depicting characters. Something like: “ahh! help! They’re changing something here! O_O”
So I don't mean that these are changes for the better or for the worse. It’s just that the very fact of any changes is a little “O__O!” and sometimes it takes time to adapt.
p.s. Just in case: english is not my native language. Sorry if some of the sentences sound a little confusing and crooked ^^'
8
Bliss
I never viewed Nori or Mori as negative. This world is very frustrating. Everyone is offended by everything both online and offline. I'm not whining about change, I simply never saw them as something negative.
38
feral
This is the Subeta I know.
It took you a while to get here, but you got here and that's what matters.
It took you a while to get here, but you got here and that's what matters.
19
TaNi
This is not the most important thing by far, but I do appreciate that the new name hasn't affected the alphabetical placement in the list of quests.
9
purring
very glad for this change, and hopeful for better communication in the future - thank you amber and team
2
Dandelion
"Oh no, can't believe I'm expected to be nice and learn new things!"
Go find a safe space to whine with your fellow bigots in peace, if you can't be bothered to make the effort to act like a human being.
This is a great change for the folks who need it, and does not affect the folks who don't need it in any way whatsoever except by maybe teaching us something.
Also great to see the staff acknowledging, apologising for and explaining things they didn't handle as well as they could have. It's really respectful to the playerbase in a way very few games manage.
Go find a safe space to whine with your fellow bigots in peace, if you can't be bothered to make the effort to act like a human being.
This is a great change for the folks who need it, and does not affect the folks who don't need it in any way whatsoever except by maybe teaching us something.
Also great to see the staff acknowledging, apologising for and explaining things they didn't handle as well as they could have. It's really respectful to the playerbase in a way very few games manage.
56
SpectralHaunter
As someone who is a system/has some form of DID, this is amazing to see. Nori and Mori have been favorites of mine since I first joined (I'll admit, being a bit on the goth side, mori was a favorite especially.) Don't listen to the people complaining about the changes, keep up the good work!
12
Sheap
I don't think you did it wrong, in the sense of "tackle everything at once" yes, it took time but it is a better aproach than change one item today, another tomorrow, only the ones that pops up in user conversations, being pointed in each actualization "what about this, this and another item?" That breaks the work flow AND give a confusing results by having old lore items mixed with new lore items
So, yes, do things right, even if it takes a bit more of time, for rushing incomplete stuff there is the rest of the internet actually
So, yes, do things right, even if it takes a bit more of time, for rushing incomplete stuff there is the rest of the internet actually
3
lion_magnus
Thank you for your hard work and the effort in making this place as inclusive as possible!
2
Sleeb
Wow, I've never seen a post that made me instantly want to block a bunch of people on subeta of all places.
Thank you for the update and change, Staff. I hope to see plot better explaining their situation in the future.
Thank you for the update and change, Staff. I hope to see plot better explaining their situation in the future.
26
TheGhostHybrid
Hiya! This is so incredibly wonderful. I have many friends who are plural, and I had to share this news with them (even though most of them aren’t Subetans, lol). As requested by @Amber, I’d like to point out the following items that still reference the old lore:
Oh, one more thing! While searching, I found this absolute GEM of an item:
Mori and Noris Campfire Tales
↑↑↑ Now THIS is good. I dropped my jaw while reading this description; it is so subtle and makes it very clear that systems and other members of the plural community were involved here!
Overall, while I am not a system myself (and frequently find myself the token singlet, lmao), this filled me with such joy, and to see the change finally come to fruition is a great payoff. Kudos to everyone!
Mori and Nori
Mori
Nori
Mori and Noris Campfire Tales
↑↑↑ Now THIS is good. I dropped my jaw while reading this description; it is so subtle and makes it very clear that systems and other members of the plural community were involved here!
Overall, while I am not a system myself (and frequently find myself the token singlet, lmao), this filled me with such joy, and to see the change finally come to fruition is a great payoff. Kudos to everyone!
8
Lia
Everything is offensive on Subeta, this is why I barely play anymore. And before anyone jump at my throat I do have a severe mental disability but I still think this is weird. Staff is apologizing as they killed someone, ugh.
29
innamoramento
@JayPanda
According to the revised DSM is referred to shortly, 'split personality' or 'multiple personality' are outdated terms for this disorder. However, many people around the world may not know about the change, which is fair since not everyone struggles with mental problems [umbrella term here].
Personally, i think that 'split personality disorder' is a decently fitting term for this disorder, though "multiple personality personality disorder' also makes lots of sense.
However, these terms have been used in movies and TV shows, to display the disorder in a negative manner. That is quite offensive [just like saying all ____ people do XYZ which is something bad, illegal], and we all know that can't be true. there are _______ people that are good and hard working people that would never hurt a fly.
Not everyone would be offended by the term you use to refer to this disorder (my fiance is one of them). They will get upset (to put it lighly) if others would say the disorder is not real, that they're faking it.
As a sidenote, there ARE folks who would fake having this disorder, but i'm not sure why. That is also offensive.
According to the revised DSM is referred to shortly, 'split personality' or 'multiple personality' are outdated terms for this disorder. However, many people around the world may not know about the change, which is fair since not everyone struggles with mental problems [umbrella term here].
Personally, i think that 'split personality disorder' is a decently fitting term for this disorder, though "multiple personality personality disorder' also makes lots of sense.
However, these terms have been used in movies and TV shows, to display the disorder in a negative manner. That is quite offensive [just like saying all ____ people do XYZ which is something bad, illegal], and we all know that can't be true. there are _______ people that are good and hard working people that would never hurt a fly.
Not everyone would be offended by the term you use to refer to this disorder (my fiance is one of them). They will get upset (to put it lighly) if others would say the disorder is not real, that they're faking it.
As a sidenote, there ARE folks who would fake having this disorder, but i'm not sure why. That is also offensive.
5
Mochi
Nice!! I am super happy to see we’re getting away from that narrative with them.
It’s always nice to see the staff taking accountability and dusting old cobwebs when necessary!
Thank you for the transparency and the hard work!
It’s always nice to see the staff taking accountability and dusting old cobwebs when necessary!
Thank you for the transparency and the hard work!
4
Glacier
I've recently gotten to know persons with DID and it has honestly been a real struggle to try to get my head around it. Nothing I thought I knew about multiple personalities as a mental health condition were to date and it is a very rapidly evolving field.
But the important part I've learned is that you don't really need to "get" it. Just be nice and enjoy the company. Sounds like that's what the Subeta staff is trying to go for, too. Great.
But the important part I've learned is that you don't really need to "get" it. Just be nice and enjoy the company. Sounds like that's what the Subeta staff is trying to go for, too. Great.
18
JayPanda
@Darkrai okay, i understand it better now, i appreciate you taking the time to help me understand better. i dont usually ready anything on here, it just sparked my interest for some reason. i can see where someone would maybe feel a little ill about it.
i do apologize unless things are dumbed down for me or made for me to understand better it dont normally click for me. :3
i do apologize unless things are dumbed down for me or made for me to understand better it dont normally click for me. :3
7
Darkrai
@Desilyna @JayPanda Prefacing this to say I don't personally have DID and this is just my interpretation of the linked thread + quote from fun etc. but the initial complaint that started things was that the term "split personality" used in the achievement name is outdated and offensive to folks with DID. Additionally, the "good vs. evil" elements and "Cursed by an Evil Goddess" backstory was not idael because it feeds into existing stigma that people with DID face, even if Mori and Nori weren't necessarily meant to represent DID. And if you look at the updated Subetapedia entry, the characters are still present but without those negative elements.
I would definitely recommend reading the thread if you have more questions because a bunch of users who do have DID weighed in there on what their issues were with the previous portrayal and/or wordings
fun etc. but the initial complaint that started things was that the term "split personality" used in the achievement name is outdated and offensive to folks with DID. Additionally, the "good vs. evil" elements and "Cursed by an Evil Goddess" backstory was not idael because it feeds into existing stigma that people with DID face, even if Mori and Nori weren't necessarily meant to represent DID. And if you look at the updated Subetapedia entry, the characters are still present but without those negative elements.I would definitely recommend reading the thread if you have more questions because a bunch of users who do have DID weighed in there on what their issues were with the previous portrayal and/or wordings
25
JayPanda
okay im confused, so dont come at me here cause im just trying to understand better. so they had a split personality, and and they have been on here since the beginning, and because there is people with split personality disorders, they didnt like that the characters did? question would people relate more to them and like that there was a character they could relate to, i have anxiety and nervous issues while welding depression as a grown adult like many many others alike have aswell. im dyslexic with adhd/bi polar so im not perfect by any means ive got a whole ball game for chemicals unbalanced in my brain. im just not understanding why so many people didnt like the split idea. like i said im bipolar i got be split myself i personally just enjoy and love this site with all the character and charm it has. im not worried about the little things like that maybe thats just me, either way i was going to continue to use the site and enjoy it regardless of this change tht im just now finding out about. im promise im inoccent in writing this just trying understand thats all.
12
JessieFae
Thank you so much for being so open about everything and willing to realize what went wrong and how to improve it. You've been nothing but respectful and kind during this transition!
7
Desilyna
But how was Mori and Nori even negative at all? I saw them as being two sides of the same person, nothing bad at all. People are offended by everything.
43
peachette
i will admit i was being very blunt and abrasive about this on the brainstorm thread.
so i want to say thank you for making the changes, and for the accountability as well. this post makes me feel like people were actually heard more than the last post did.
i'm proud of everyone who fought for this without letting it be forgotten.
so i want to say thank you for making the changes, and for the accountability as well. this post makes me feel like people were actually heard more than the last post did.
i'm proud of everyone who fought for this without letting it be forgotten.
8
Xezvi
Really pleased to see how the staff are responding to the community and following the users' lead on updating their old content. Also, very impressed with the willingness to accept criticism, change approach to conflict, and apologize in the comments in real time! As someone with a public-facing job, I know from experience that it is very hard not to escalate a situation when someone comes in to an interaction frustrated, especially if they put you on the defensive. Kudos to Amber for accepting responsibility and doing everything in her power to correct the situation.
I'm also very happy to be learning new things! I'm glad to hear the perspectives of community members and learn updated terminology. (The preferred collective unit is a System? Love that) I'll be excited to read up on this tomorrow when I'm not so sleepy, lol.
I'm also very happy to be learning new things! I'm glad to hear the perspectives of community members and learn updated terminology. (The preferred collective unit is a System? Love that) I'll be excited to read up on this tomorrow when I'm not so sleepy, lol.
15
Pinocchio
I'd also like to learn what's to happen to the "Cursed" forum title, like others. If you change the title, please let us have a different way to obtain the Cursed title for different reasons. I enjoy that title and would be sad to lose it.
4
Pinocchio
Do Mori and Nori still share a body, or are they separate beings that rise with their respective time of day? I read the new subetapedia post, and it's a little unclear on that point. I have no experience with DID, so I can't speak on it, so I'll just say that I was attached to Mono Ri's original story and was wondering to myself if she'd ever find freedom... and now she has, so I can feel relief that she lived happily ever after now, hehe.
Can we get a plot involving these guys someday? It'll help us get acquainted with their new story, I feel like.
Can we get a plot involving these guys someday? It'll help us get acquainted with their new story, I feel like.
10
AnaSolidor
What a strange series of posts. I've seen actual criminals apologize less, and they were on the hook for jail time.
40
foxfaeble
Thank you staff, for continuing to be truly inclusive and listening to users when issues like these come up. :heart:
3
Mimiryn
I have OSDD and I locked onto Mori/Nori a couple weeks ago when I started playing and was just having a conversation IRL with a friend about how I was thrilled to have some semblance of representation that I actually really liked even if it was still problematic. Beyond my expectations you've taken the time to update outdated terms and take responsibility for it, I am so in love with your commitment to changing and creating a safe place for people and the transparency you've provided here. I wish you nothing but success in the future.
With love from all of us<3
With love from all of us<3
15
Ravage
Thanks for the updates on them. But do I get to keep my cursed forum title? It's the only one I use...
9
Captain
I haven't been around much so I missed that this was happening at all, so I'm pleasantly surprised! (As someone who's life is impacted by DID)
Thank you to everyone who worked on this, users and staff alike!
Thank you to everyone who worked on this, users and staff alike!
3
Rat
thank you for the explanation in this post and taking accountability in the delay and the generic responses, i admit the situation was frustrating to me, i don't have DID but i have friends that do, and i also generally think that being welcoming and inclusive is very important, so i was happy to add my voice to the users requesting this change.
i do hope that the team takes this to heart, i know how much it sucks having a lot to do with a small team, but i do hope that you guys are able to address little things in a more timely manner going forward. as i mentioned (somewhat tangentially) on the mono ri board, it seems like the forums with requests for changes to items (namely the Item Name/Description Update thread and Make this a Book/Food/Minion/Toy thread) haven't had much attention for some time as well, I hope some time can be spent doing small changes requested there as well :)
i do hope that the team takes this to heart, i know how much it sucks having a lot to do with a small team, but i do hope that you guys are able to address little things in a more timely manner going forward. as i mentioned (somewhat tangentially) on the mono ri board, it seems like the forums with requests for changes to items (namely the Item Name/Description Update thread and Make this a Book/Food/Minion/Toy thread) haven't had much attention for some time as well, I hope some time can be spent doing small changes requested there as well :)
21
Tiobe
In a world that is increasingly frustrating, it’s lovely to me that Subeta doubles down on their commitment to inclusivity 💗 awesome work, Amber (et al). and huzzah for new lore ✨
13
Someone
I was happy seeing them switched from being cursed and maybe this could be why. Dissociative disorders do get a lot of negative attention so glad there’s some positive for them 😊
8
Someone
I was happy seeing them switched from being cursed and maybe this could be why. Dissociative disorders do get a lot of negative attention so glad there’s some positive for them 😊
1
FyreNWater
Thank you for the updates. Love to see growth, learning, and changes for the better! Let's all strive to be inclusive and welcoming! <3
5
Runasutaru
@Amber
Oh. What a funny coincidence, then! I can't believe Nori and Mori caused you trouble at the last minute like that. Tsk! Naughty girls.
Oh. What a funny coincidence, then! I can't believe Nori and Mori caused you trouble at the last minute like that. Tsk! Naughty girls.
5
Amber
Someone brought this up in the discord, @Laurey! I think I'll end up removing it from the achievement and release it again in another fashion in the future. Maybe collection cursed antique items or something we have on site. I'll look into it when I'm back from Shabbat (which I\'m totally leaving to do now).
@Runasutaru Actually, it had nothing to do with the weekend quest. That's completely random and if anything was more of a hassle to deal with when updating everything today (changing the real time weekend quest instead of just setting it up for future instances). I did promise y'all by end of Summer and I did my best to meet that!
@Runasutaru Actually, it had nothing to do with the weekend quest. That's completely random and if anything was more of a hassle to deal with when updating everything today (changing the real time weekend quest instead of just setting it up for future instances). I did promise y'all by end of Summer and I did my best to meet that!
8
Runasutaru
I sensed the choice and timing of the weekend bonus quest was heralding the change (as per the most-recently promised date on the forums), and I'm glad I was right.
Perhaps I am mistaken in this observation, but the insistence on making the changes all in one go feels like perfectionism took hold of the staff. There are times where it's definitely worth working towards exceeding expectations and putting out pristine results, but there are others — like this one — where making the achievement-name change early on and then chipping at other sections over months and years would have yielded better results with both the writing efforts and the community; listening closely to users' wishes early on in the forum thread would've made that clear. Regardless, I am glad the change was made, overdue as it was.
Perhaps I am mistaken in this observation, but the insistence on making the changes all in one go feels like perfectionism took hold of the staff. There are times where it's definitely worth working towards exceeding expectations and putting out pristine results, but there are others — like this one — where making the achievement-name change early on and then chipping at other sections over months and years would have yielded better results with both the writing efforts and the community; listening closely to users' wishes early on in the forum thread would've made that clear. Regardless, I am glad the change was made, overdue as it was.
16
Laurey
@Amber
The Duality Quests achievement (which is retired, so you probably need to select the "retired" option to view it even with the link) has had the achievement name updated, but the forum title associated with it is still the Cursed title.
I'm not sure how to best address this because the achievement itself is currently retired, so no one new can actually obtain it, and I'm sure some people who already have it really like the Cursed title and would want to keep it. So I don't know if some other achievement could be created that gives that forum title and just remove it from the old achievement? Not sure how all of that works on the backed, but it's just a semi-issue that still exists because of the changes (which overall I do agree with and am glad for staff listening to player concerns).
The Duality Quests achievement (which is retired, so you probably need to select the "retired" option to view it even with the link) has had the achievement name updated, but the forum title associated with it is still the Cursed title.
I'm not sure how to best address this because the achievement itself is currently retired, so no one new can actually obtain it, and I'm sure some people who already have it really like the Cursed title and would want to keep it. So I don't know if some other achievement could be created that gives that forum title and just remove it from the old achievement? Not sure how all of that works on the backed, but it's just a semi-issue that still exists because of the changes (which overall I do agree with and am glad for staff listening to player concerns).
6
Narshe
I'm glad this topic was treated with the utmost respect and care, despite how long it took to address it. I hope others also understand why this change was made and see it isn't harming the site to be more inclusive and accepting of revisions. Change is good! Especially in this regard. ♡
15
Pandaslowpoke
@Amber
The Description for the Starlight Spirit from their quest shop has a typo/weird phrasing.It starts like the old description did, then jumps awkwardly to describing what the spirits do in a way that makes it ambigous as to wether it's talking about the spirit or Mori's spirits
The Description for the Starlight Spirit from their quest shop has a typo/weird phrasing.It starts like the old description did, then jumps awkwardly to describing what the spirits do in a way that makes it ambigous as to wether it's talking about the spirit or Mori's spirits
1
fun
thank you everyone for the positive response, and thank you to members of the DID community that have spoken up alongside each other to get this changed.
48
Amber
If you come across any bits of the site (items, text somewhere) that still uses the old language for Mori and Nori please ping me and let me now. I won't be online for the next 24 hours or so due to Shabbat, but will update things when I get back online. :)
23
Sensuous
i appreciate that we can have respectful conversations and admit errors. we are all on the same team. thanks to both parties for helping better our site. :)
17
EvilRedDuckie
Thank you to @fun and everyone else - including @Amber for working so hard and tirelessly to make sure we have a truly inclusive place full of love to share with each other. :heart: :D
21
Lypsyl
Thank you for making the change, and I appreciate the apology for the time it took to make it happen.
2
Slowerthanzero
I think this is well put and explains everything very clearly and nicely! Thank you~!
2
DivineSimulacrum
Amazing post. Being a returning user I had no idea about the lore or identity of Nori and Mori but after reading this post and more about them, I love that this change was made. While I don’t have DID personally, many friends close to me do, and this inclusion is nice to see in the worlds that I choose to live among.
12
Sweetheart
it’s very cautious & caring of you guys to change the name to duality, very beautiful. ❤️
5
sushi
I like the name more. But moreover, I think it is awesome to listen to users and strive for inclusivity and solidarity. Thank you guys. <3
8