@Amber @Isilven
pls fund my kickstarter campaign subeta hobbitfest 2018, theme: taters 1000 ways

idk if i can offer, i'm not asking for anything at all in return or a trade this is just free, but if anyone needs help buying something from the shops, i can help <3

Happy for the return of the honesty pots btw, I always think they're super cute. ^_^

Yay, (re)new(ed) event! :D

Thankee kindly Amber! :grin:

@Samwise

i 100000000% throw myself and my sp behind hobbit potatoes

@Pegasus The Brewery will close again once Neugarten ends, so will the shops run by Manwar, Gunter, and Rumi!

me, before: i don't think i would like the taste of many vegan foods
me, now: yum

Eeehhhhhh... glad I got here after Gunter had his post reworded. I'm in it for the wardrobe achievements and Gourmand titles, less so for passive-aggressive angry vegan stereotypes.

Will the old Brewery stock still go away after the end of the holiday like before? :o

Okay is that long tirade calling veganism "stupid" really necessary? The subeta staff isn't even insulting ANYONE, anyone that thinks they are needs to unpick their wedgie and stop being so damn sensitive over pixel items. Everyone here has been very respectful and never said anything about meat eaters being horrible people, so how the hell was all that acid spewing rage called for? Maybe you should check your OWN attitude before you say anything about vegans.

@METROID i understand this argument. i was more simply saying that its nice to see all the items on here drawn out in pixels and i personally don't see the exclusiveness, but i'm not on that side of the argument, so i can't speak for others. i just see how nice the items are and i'm collecting them all for my pet on here, and tbh while i've been a part of the arguments in the past, i don't see why every holiday on here has to bring another argument. if it's an outrageous thing, i see that. and again, i'm on the other side of this so i may be bias, but all of the items seem to be vegan friendly, not necessarily attacking or trying to drag anyone else down, just embracing vegan. everyone has their own lifestyle in which they live, and that is their thing. and while i'm sure there's a solid definition in which "vegan" is placed under, i don't see anything with this re-branding of a holiday or its items as playing into that. i kind of see a lot of hate and unkind things in the world in general, and i suppose i'm a hippie, but i would like one thing to be fun and non argumentative on here for once unless it calls for it. i don't believe this does. anyway, be blessed everyone <3

@Samwise neugarten: not enough potatoes

i mean, i feel like alegarten would have more naturally transformed into a hobbit festival....
INSPIRATION FOR U:

just sayin.

@METROID "It was ze right time for me, und even if it isn't ze right time for you to make ze full switch or being vegan isn't something you're into or able to do, I hope you'll come und enjoy some new foods und ideas during this festival." - Gunter

I see the festival as more try new things and not YOU MUST LIVE YOUR LIFE THE WAY I DO DO NOT HURT ANIMALS BECAUSE I LOVE OATMEAL (i did that in caps because honestly that's just how I see gunter speaking always. at volume 10000). There are some judgmental vegans out there but tbh there's judgmental people in every group (religious, culture-based, etc). I don't see Gunter being one to turn people away just because they don't agree with his viewpoint (unless you're his brother because then you get murdered)

@Stiles
i think the criticisms are more towards how the veganism is being portrayed in this context. I guess because it's a very, all or none kind of attitude, as opposed to various degrees of how committed one is to a vegan lifestyle. For example, one of my friends eats vegan, but buys shoes and clothing products even if they have animal hide used. Would that make her a fake vegan in eyes of other vegans?

I guess the concern people have is whether this Neugarten is respectful to all types of vegans out there, not just being "all vegan or you're not welcome" kind of mentality.

@far

@Rah Ahhh you are awesome thank you!!! I can't say I've seen a staff care so much about inclusion of their userbase before <3 You guys rock!!

@METROID everyone is entitled, of course. i was just kind of surprised? maybe its because i'm on the vegan/veggie side of it that i don't get how people are offended, but i definitely can't speak for everyone or say how to feel. i hope everyone can have fun anyway, though. <3 (i'm on a heart spree sorry for all the hearts everyone if its annoying)

@Stiles
Ikr, I don't even see anything condescending here, at least not enough to get defensive about. That is nothing compared to some of the hateful things the really hardcore activists say on a daily basis, lol.

@Lioness
That would be cool :). I'm not part of the LGBT community but I support them 100%, and I'm always up for more diversity on here. Plus I love rainbows xD

also i saw it mentioned... please sign me up for a "drop the beet" shirt, thank you <3

@Stiles
Actually, this is pretty tame all things considered lol. Believe me, I've seen worse in past years.
Everyone is allowed to voice their opinion, be it unpopular or part of the majority. I've never been an Alegarten fan, so if it ended permanently, I wouldn't have batted an eye.

I'm willing to give this Neugarten thing a chance though, even if it's not really my kind of thing.

i'm a little sad because i'm german and i thought it was cool that we had an annual traditional oktoberfest event on the site. it was one of the main things that piqued my interest enough to keep playing when i joined 5 years ago, as weird as that might sound. i'm definitely NOT against attempts at inclusivity like this, i'm actually really happy to see so many people connecting with it and appreciating the representation. i just think that it was a bit odd to completely revamp a short cultural event like alegarten (like Samurai mentioned) into a vegan-centric event. it seems... contrived? i'm not sure how to phrase what i'm trying to say, but i'm really not trying to be rude.

@METROID
I'm sorry but Alegarten really has run its course. You can only get so much water from a sponge. We'll still get new meat items and there's revamps to look forward to!

...there's a lot of anger okay. but i was excited to come on and see all the veggie/vegan items and now people are trying to make everyone feel bad about it. alright. but thank you for the items, and i hope everyone enjoys it <3 i hope i can get everything, kind of overwhelmed. be kind to animals <3

@METROID - we have really exhausted the Alegarten theme, the artists were very much struggling with what to draw for a holiday that revolved around just sausage and beer!

@METROID Because the artists can only do so many sausages and oktoberfest items :P The rebranding works on the lore of Gunter changing but also gives the artists new things they can make that fill gaps of things we don't have on the site.

@Amber
I wish we could have both. I mean, i know the old stuff is there, but what if alegarten could have both new vegan stuff and new regular stuff? Everybody would win.

@METROID Vegan food isn't all healthy! It's just a different way of making things. I personally tend to go more vegetarian/vegan with dishes because I try to keep kosher, so I can't mix meat and dairy. Vegan options give me a chance to have things I love, like philly cheesesteaks (with tofu instead of meat, so I can have all the cheese).

Why Go Vegan has been read to Elfric!
Elfric says, "What a waste of paper..."

He said it, not me LOL
I kinda don't like how Alegarten became all health conscience. And I want to see gunther get arrested anyways.

@Ipsi i tried to bribe Rah into letting me have the food trucks show up SHE REFUSED (junk food city right)

This is really random but all the support for something that not everyone can relate to but will be appreciated by those who do is a real nice idea and makes me wish there was a LGBT/Pride mini event or something w Not trying to make this about me by the way I just love this and I can't help think about the cool stickers and plushies and food that the staff would be able to come up with lol.

Sorry for the self indulgent post in amongst the serious discussion ;w;

Healthy foods? BOOO

AHHH!! I absolutely LOVE the new items and obviously need them ALL! Just wish there was a "Kale KING" shirt too because I'm the self-proclaimed king of kale, yo... but hey, I'm not complaining. Vegan cheese! Non-dairy milks! KALE sticker! NOOCH (nutritional yeast)! Cruelty free! Friends not Food! I love it all!! I've been vegan for over seven years (and vegetarian for almost twenty) and this just makes my day. I love you Gunter! ^__^ ♥️

Vegan fest!! I'm so happy to see all the new vegan stuff, Gunter you are awesome!

My girlfriend is a vegan foodie. The pet I have whose TC is stuff that reminds me of her is going to get HUGE.

But only with the food items, because she loathes condescending, obnoxious vegans who lecture others about their choices, cares about the human cost of veganism as well as the animal (very few vegans seem interested in whether their choices exploit underprivileged humans) and believes that caring about animals in ANY way is preferable to saying "Well, you're not vegan, so nothing else you do matters," thus encouraging people to give up ANY type of service they may be doing because it's "not wanted" or "doesn't count." She was also genuinely shocked to realize that people like this exist - she thought it was basically a myth. Then she met literally every vegan friend I've ever had and was horrified. Her words, "No wonder people hate us."

Of course she also has a sense of humor and laughs at the jokes about how a vegan will always tell you they're vegan - because she gets that no one has anything against veganism as a practice, they just have something against people who are obnoxious about it. She doesn't wear "Animal Lives Matter" t-shirts (which are a thing, complete with the BLM logo - because equating black people with animals isn't problematic at all); she wears the t-shirt I got her that says "Hail Seitan."

So, you know, this shop didn't have to be condescending and passive-aggressive; it could've been cute and fun. But y'all do you, I guess.

the logo is super cute! i also love the art for the food items.

>avoiding any and all foods/products that involve animals in order to be "cruelty free"

>never donated or even heard of the ASPCA, never bothered to learn about farm animals or how to care for them, never volunteered to animal shelters or worked for ranches

>"omg you eat meat?? how cruel! animals are brutalized for your lifestyle!"

I'm honestly surprised by the amount of blind selfishness in some parts of the vegan community. Many vegans say they don't eat meat in order to help animals, but in the end, dairy/egg/meat farmers produce the same amount of milk, eggs, and meat whether people buy them from the shelves or not. Being vegan for the sake of animal welfare can make you feel better about yourself, but you need to understand that you are not doing as much as you think you are in this country. If you want to help animals, you don't need to quit buying animal products cold-turkey. What really helps is buying from farms that treat their animals right. Like, buying cage-free eggs, pasture fed beef and milk, etc. This promotes the GOOD farms, farms owned privately by people who CARE and know how to treat animals respectfully, from when the creature enters the world until it departs from it. Avoid products that say something along the lines of "100% free of antibiotics" - this means that animals like cows who've may have gotten very sick have never been treated with antibiotics in order to recover, so they suffer longer with illness (many dairy cows are given antibiotics by vets at some point of their lives when absolutely necessary). The cow's milk will still be good to drink after she stops taking her medicine. Avoid highly-processed animal products from factory farms, where the animals may never see the light of day or get to even walk around. THESE are the kind of things that help animals. Support your local farms who care. Volunteer for animal shelters and farmers if they are hiring. Learn about animals you may not encounter on a daily basis instead of following what some "vegans" say is right.
But hey, if guilt-tripping people is what it takes to gets this country's obesity rate under control, so be it.

SO. I have to echo what some people have said here (Like @Valiska, I also have Celiac disease, so going vegan isn't an option for me) about the militant sort of veganism. I understand the sentiments behind it, really I do. But it feels like I'm being talked down to here.

Also, I honestly don't get why this couldn't have been a new holiday instead of replacing Alegarten? Or an off-shoot of Alegarten? I liked Subetan Oktoberfest the way it was, tbh

"Saying goodbye to my old ways was tough, but rewarding"

So no more murdering other human being for your own benefit either, I take it?

I LOVE THIS
Thank you Gunter :green_heart:

Thanks @Rah.

@Yam, I'm not ostracising anyone! :) I just tried to explain why people react badly when some people bring up their veganism. Obviously not everyone who is vegan is like that, which is WHY I was disappointed with the initial post and some of the items. Just don't freak out when I put some of that nut cheese on the gluten free bread with some roast beef and we're good.

(Also pass the avocado chocolate mousse, because that and guacamole are the only ways I can stand avocado)

I was going to say some items felt a little passive aggressive but it seems like people already did it for me. Thanks I guess.

@Valiska

Well I really have had people say why they can't go vegan when I just MENTION that I am, not so much in this post, lol. I do agree that not everyone can be vegan, just like not everyone can "cure" their illnesses and ditch their meds eating organic/whole foods (which is something I myself find infuriating with some vegans). But I think most everyone is capable of making more animal/environment conscious choices in their lives, and while many people already do, there are a lot who just want to do whatever they want and don't seem to give a crap about how their actions affect the earth or animal welfare. THAT I have a problem with, more than the idea of "every human/animal interaction is horribly cruel" like a lot of vegans put out there.

@Yam Yes, it's more of a personal problem than a vegan problem. I've seen people with any other sort of belief system or opinion with the same "my way or the highway" attitude. I think you just see rude vegans more because our society basically revolves around eating or wearing animals, so there's a lot of opportunity for them to say things.

@Andrea - I also have a friend with a micro brewery in his back yard, and I've been on a few brewery tours this past year for birthdays and such, it's SUPER interesting and also smells so nice!

@Valiska - i've gone ahead and had Gunter adjust his words a bit as I do think you're right that there are some people that are not able to go vegan (or would just really struggle with it which is still very hard) due to dietary restrictions or living in food deserts or many other reasons. Or they just aren't interested and may never be, but are down with trying any kind of food!

Mostly I think if you can and want to, just cut down on animal products. I also agree with the eating local when you can, but that's a whole further discussion.

If you're (anyone here) is interested in learning more, there are many resources out there to help you on your specific journey. I can only really speak for the kind of person I am and what I have had to face, I may not be the right person to help people on a different journey - but I can recommend some thought-provoking things to watch and books to read if desired.

If somebody wants to know why I'm vegan/working towards being vegan then I'll tell them, until then I really just want to share food and be able to go out with friends to places to eat and be able to have more than a side salad or fries, or go to somebody's house and not have them be super uncomfortable with me - which is something that will come from more information, more representation and more people knowing what to even cook!

@Rah
That's really interesting! I didn't know any of that, but I drink cider, not beer, and and I'm typically more concerned with the lack of additives than how it's filtered. I'ma read more into that, I like learning new things. Plus my coworkers family has a brewery and are the type of people who would probably love trying to make a vegan beer.

@Valiska

while i agree with you that the some people can sometimes selectively ignore why others cannot go vegan, i'd like to point out that phrases such as "cruelty free" are actual labels used in the US for products and food, and regardless of what they might imply they are identifying labels that people actually use. Also, I have yet to find an item description (though i haven't looked at them all yet) that implies that people who aren't vegan just "aren't ready".

I totally see your point, but would just like to point out that those are specific to certain (definitely problematic) people rather than the vegan community as a whole, and while its important to point them out, its dangerous to ostracize an entire community of people for a few (very vocal) outliers

@Sprinter137

People don't react that way just because you mention veganism. In fact, if someone's coming to my house to eat, I want to know all their food preferences/dietary needs and restrictions, so that I don't serve them food that they will dislike, or worse, get sick from.

It's when people start talking about WHY they are vegan that things get heated. I have a couple friends who are vegan because animal foods disagree with them. We have never had an argument about the fact that I need to eat meat and they need to not eat meat.

But when people start talking about cruelty and immorality and implying that people who don't want to be vegan or vegetarian just aren't ready yet, then yes, people will explain why they cannot eat vegan (or at least not 100% of the time), because many vegans make it very clear that they believe everyone can and should be vegan, and that nobody's health depends on animal protein.

I am 100% fine with the store being full of vegan foods. I will probably buy some of them. I would probably eat some of them IRL, provided they didn't contain wheat, rye, or barley glutens either as ingredients or contaminants.

I am not 100% fine with some of the stickers and tee-shirts. Vegan AF - that's just fine, good for you! Walk into my house wearing that and I know what not to put on your plate, so we're good. Commentary about the 'cruelty' of other people's lives, particularly people who can't even afford to eat that way, not so much.

And I'm not fine with the implication that I'm just not ready to be vegan YET. I find that just as annoying as I find the Christian side of the family's insistence that us Hebrews will all eventually see the "light".