Duality Quests: More Context
First, users brought up the issues regarding how Mori and Nori were portrayed so this brainstorm thread so born. If you look at the date, you can see it was created well over a year ago and users brought it up before that. It's unacceptable that we took so long to address this. While yes, our team is small and incredibly stretched thin, it shouldn't have taken us the amount of time it did. We as a team have a problem with breaking tasks up into smaller things; we always want to do everything at once. In this case, we really thought it made the most sense and was the most respectful to get everything changed at once. It was clearly not the right way to go about things, and I personally want to apologize to those I put off with my "we're working on it" generic comments.
Now, what was the issue with Nori and Mori?
Quote:
"Mori and Nori as well as items relating to them have been changed due to the use of terminology that is offensive to those with Dissociative Identity Disorder. While they were not meant to be a direct representation of the disorder, many users have voiced their concerns that the inherent nature of her backstory alongside it being painted in a negative light opened up a lot of opportunities for offensive language being used throughout the site. Since Mori and Nori are such an accessible and essential part of the site, having things like this at the forefront may reenforce the thought that the usage of these terms is acceptable and normalized, which is not what's wanted at all in a site that seeks to be inclusive and diverse."
This was beautifully said by user fun who has experience with DID and has been a champion for educating the staff and users. I asked them to sum up what the problem for users without having to read the entire suggestion thread.
We've updated the text for the Mori and Nori quests (the intro text, the turn in text, the failed quest, the reward text), the quest shop text, the subetapedia main entry about the two as well as the quick facts listed in the quest givers list, and various items around the site. We've also renamed the achievements associated with Mori and Nori. Did we miss something? Please ping me (Amber) so I can adjust it.
In the future, I will actively try to not offer excuses ("our team is small" "our focus is on a holiday") and will do my best to work with users to get things updated in a timely manner. This isn't always possible, of course, but I personally could have done a lot better job with this particular issue.
Why does this all matter?
Like fun's quote says, we really do strive to be inclusive and diverse. We don't want to have things on site that upset users in a negative way like this. It's one thing to not like an item because you think spiders (or something similar) are scary, it's another to have to deal with an item promoting negative stereotypes to a mental health disorder you may have. By not addressing user concerns about Mori and Nori in a timely matter, we as staff made part of our user base feel unheard and unimportant which is never what we want. We've adjusted items with a quick turn around before (Algonquin Plushie comes to mind) and the fact we took over a year to make these changes was plain wrong.
Why post a new news post instead of just adding another comment to the earlier post?
The users who brought up the issue with Mori and Nori, continued to fight for the change, and actively tried to educate users and staff deserve this post. They deserve to be publicly acknowledged for the work they did.
Posted by Amber
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@Duane
for someone complaining about others being bothered you seem very sensitive about this change happening, to the point of several comments in a very short period of time. perhaps you should consider taking your own advice and go somewhere else where you don't have to be upset about this change? decompress in a safer space for you?
for someone complaining about others being bothered you seem very sensitive about this change happening, to the point of several comments in a very short period of time. perhaps you should consider taking your own advice and go somewhere else where you don't have to be upset about this change? decompress in a safer space for you?
Oh, one thing I forgot (MY BAD I am a chatterbox), is that saying "they're just drawings" or "they're just pixels" is... well, no offense, but it's ignorant. Media shapes society, whether it's real people or fictional ones. There's the simple examples of political propaganda used for brainwashing and skinny waist models being advertised to young girls, both of which are very harmful to the people consuming these things, but there's also the very real examples of Jaws convincing people that sharks are all mindless killers (leading to countless sharks being unreasonably hunted and killed), the Slenderman stabbing (two girls stabbed their friend and claimed it was to appease the creepypasta figure Slenderman), and Randy Stair (this one might be a little more iffy, but he shot and killed people, claiming he would be joining his favorite Danny Phantom character and OCs in the afterlife).
Fiction does not equal reality, but it does heavily influence it in various ways.
(p.s. Go listen to the song "Victoria's Secret" by Jax. It's hilarious and related to the topic at hand.)
Fiction does not equal reality, but it does heavily influence it in various ways.
(p.s. Go listen to the song "Victoria's Secret" by Jax. It's hilarious and related to the topic at hand.)
A'ight, I was going to leave it at my "wow I like this change", but I'll be the SJW keyboard smasher posting a half-assed essay since I see some people don't understand why this change is so important.
Also, you can be concerned about more than one issue at a time, while still working towards fixing them gradually. One issue getting fixed doesn't mean others won't be fixed if you keep rallying for it with valid arguments.
The thing with Dissociative Identity Disorder (and related disorders, such as my Otherwise Specified Dissociative Disorder Type 1) is that we've been seen as "normal people with evil sides". That is a HORRIBLE take on the disorder because it implies that we all have our "good" sides that people see first, then our "bad" sides that will lash out and hurt others. This is wrong - I can vouch for this because I'm a system and have "multiple personalities" (which btw, they're not different personalities, but that's a huge scientific explanation I wouldn't be good at dumbing down), all of which have their pros and cons. I rejected two of my alters ("personalities") for a very long time due to mistaking them for being "evil" and in the long run, it was more detrimental than beneficial to my mental health to do that. I ended up accepting them and being better for it.
The stereotype basically portrays all of the alters a person can have with this disorder are evil or at the very least very morally grey in an unpleasant way. I have three alters who take very good care of me, who are all friendly to everyone that they choose to interact with, and all six of my alters have their "goods" and their "bads" just like real people.
Horror movies are NOTORIOUS for this awful stereotype and it HAS caused people with dissociative disorders issues. If someone says "I have diabetes", most people won't bat an eyelash. But if I say "I have a dissociative disorder", you know how many unaware people would side-eye me and think I could flip my shit on them and try to hurt them... on the basis that I've got "another personality", an idea that's been demonized by countless pieces of media MEANT to scare and horrify the human race for entertainment? That's MEANT to put a fear in you that you didn't know you could have? We're not something to fear on the basis we have a mental illness - caused by having intense trauma to begin with, mind you.
If your immediate response is "people get too offended these days", you've definitely got it good and I'm jealous of that. You've never had to question if you're unlovable, if you can't be helped, because you have multiple "personalities" (please note I say "personalities" for the sake of people who don't know, but they're actually called alters) that people assume make you an entirely different person that will hurt them. I was scared as hell to get diagnosed with OSDD-1 because of the way people both demonize it... and romanticize it. I won't get into the latter because hoo boy that's a can of worms in and of itself.
If your immediate response is "well why haven't you fixed (other important thing)"... then... rally for it??? If people can get the ball rolling on the representation of DID, then you can get the ball rolling on any ongoing issue, as long as it's a genuine concern that affects a group of people. It's not impossible. Subeta staff aren't the equivalent of the American government (insert American healthcare system meme here).
For those of you who don't/didn't understand and simply asked for info, you guys are absolutely beautiful and I hope you live fulfilling lives, because y'all are what we need. We need people willing to try understanding us, and if not that, at least respecting that we aren't in control of the disorders we have.
For those of you who have dissociative disorders, we got this. We can be functioning members of society too. We're not two sides of a coin that'll flip at random and be "good" or "evil". We aren't irredeemable, unlovable, or unacceptable because of our trauma. We deserve to be treated as humans too.
And finally,
Also, you can be concerned about more than one issue at a time, while still working towards fixing them gradually. One issue getting fixed doesn't mean others won't be fixed if you keep rallying for it with valid arguments.
The thing with Dissociative Identity Disorder (and related disorders, such as my Otherwise Specified Dissociative Disorder Type 1) is that we've been seen as "normal people with evil sides". That is a HORRIBLE take on the disorder because it implies that we all have our "good" sides that people see first, then our "bad" sides that will lash out and hurt others. This is wrong - I can vouch for this because I'm a system and have "multiple personalities" (which btw, they're not different personalities, but that's a huge scientific explanation I wouldn't be good at dumbing down), all of which have their pros and cons. I rejected two of my alters ("personalities") for a very long time due to mistaking them for being "evil" and in the long run, it was more detrimental than beneficial to my mental health to do that. I ended up accepting them and being better for it.
The stereotype basically portrays all of the alters a person can have with this disorder are evil or at the very least very morally grey in an unpleasant way. I have three alters who take very good care of me, who are all friendly to everyone that they choose to interact with, and all six of my alters have their "goods" and their "bads" just like real people.
Horror movies are NOTORIOUS for this awful stereotype and it HAS caused people with dissociative disorders issues. If someone says "I have diabetes", most people won't bat an eyelash. But if I say "I have a dissociative disorder", you know how many unaware people would side-eye me and think I could flip my shit on them and try to hurt them... on the basis that I've got "another personality", an idea that's been demonized by countless pieces of media MEANT to scare and horrify the human race for entertainment? That's MEANT to put a fear in you that you didn't know you could have? We're not something to fear on the basis we have a mental illness - caused by having intense trauma to begin with, mind you.
If your immediate response is "people get too offended these days", you've definitely got it good and I'm jealous of that. You've never had to question if you're unlovable, if you can't be helped, because you have multiple "personalities" (please note I say "personalities" for the sake of people who don't know, but they're actually called alters) that people assume make you an entirely different person that will hurt them. I was scared as hell to get diagnosed with OSDD-1 because of the way people both demonize it... and romanticize it. I won't get into the latter because hoo boy that's a can of worms in and of itself.
If your immediate response is "well why haven't you fixed (other important thing)"... then... rally for it??? If people can get the ball rolling on the representation of DID, then you can get the ball rolling on any ongoing issue, as long as it's a genuine concern that affects a group of people. It's not impossible. Subeta staff aren't the equivalent of the American government (insert American healthcare system meme here).
For those of you who don't/didn't understand and simply asked for info, you guys are absolutely beautiful and I hope you live fulfilling lives, because y'all are what we need. We need people willing to try understanding us, and if not that, at least respecting that we aren't in control of the disorders we have.
For those of you who have dissociative disorders, we got this. We can be functioning members of society too. We're not two sides of a coin that'll flip at random and be "good" or "evil". We aren't irredeemable, unlovable, or unacceptable because of our trauma. We deserve to be treated as humans too.
And finally,
Great change to see!
Sad to see how toxic some people can be over a simple change to be more inclusive and less harmful.
Sad to see how toxic some people can be over a simple change to be more inclusive and less harmful.
As someone with an OSDD diagnosis, thank you so much for such a thoughtful gesture and change! <3
As someone diagnosed with OSDD-1 (a disorder very close to DID), I really truly appreciate this change. :D Y'all make my heart warm, thank you for listening to your community. ♥
Okay never mind about some of my previous comment, I found the Subetapedia article and it cleared it up somewhat I think.
But still some of those items I listed may need to be adjusted.
But still some of those items I listed may need to be adjusted.
Wow so many comments. To add to the many opinions here: I think Duality sounds cool and DID should be represented without being stereotypically shown as evil. That being said, don't be afraid to make deep DID characters! Even if their condition is mystical and magical. It would be cool to see more of Nori and Mori and their interactions with other characters.
And i think it's cool y'all recognize that better organization for the staff is needed, i'm really not complaining but i want the game to bring more players in, and for that to happen the game needs regular content updates and mechanics added. I know it can be overwhelming but Subeta has so much potential to keep growing and i'm excited to see where it goes. <3
And i think it's cool y'all recognize that better organization for the staff is needed, i'm really not complaining but i want the game to bring more players in, and for that to happen the game needs regular content updates and mechanics added. I know it can be overwhelming but Subeta has so much potential to keep growing and i'm excited to see where it goes. <3
Looking into it more now, it is still a bit unclear about what the current lore actually is? I want to be clear, I'm not opposed to the changes or anything like that, I'm just still a bit slightly confused as to whether they are still meant to be one "person" or how exactly it works.
Because there are some other items that seem to sort of reference the old lore with the cursed/blessed thing and the conflict, so I'm not sure if these are meant to be changed too or not.
Pinging @Amber to take a look once you're working again~
Because there are some other items that seem to sort of reference the old lore with the cursed/blessed thing and the conflict, so I'm not sure if these are meant to be changed too or not.
???
@Christopher While I'm by no means justifying it, this was a change to a lore article and a couple dozen/hundred blurbs and items across the site, and it took about a year or two for that. Relatively speaking, captioning every image across site is going to be a massive undertaking. I also checked the forums and I didn't see any topic calling attention to lack of accessibility so staff could very well not be aware of there being a problem - and again, that's not to say this is right, but this particular change only happened because users with DID fought for it for a very long time. While I don't need accommodations myself, I'd 100% support more accessibility features as it's a win for everyone.
TY staff. And all those people-who I've blocked-thanks for being ableist on main so we know who to block.
As for the person who was saying "great you did one thing, why not x thing"?
You are the exact definition of seeing something positive and being upset it wasn't something you wanted, and thinking all positive things should cater to you first.
As for the person who was saying "great you did one thing, why not x thing"?
You are the exact definition of seeing something positive and being upset it wasn't something you wanted, and thinking all positive things should cater to you first.
@Kurai_Okami
Relatable. I also have autism and sometimes simple changes can be exhausting. The worse is when changes happen without an explanation, because the reason should be obvious and everyone should get it, and if someone doesn't get it, then it means they are bad people and should feel ashamed of themselves.
...As if I don't get things out of choice.
But at least the Subeta staff tried to further explain the whole change process, and they will also keep a "cursed" title, so that's good. Having the whys and the hows, it is easier to understand what happened to the "outer world" in a way I can make adjustments to my "inner world" and my "navigation map".
So, if it helps with mentally reorganizing things, the way I'm going about this is: There's old Nori and Mori (magic references), and new Nori and Mori (psychology references). I understand it is important for some people to replace the old for the new so they feel better represented, but I like my interpretation of the old magical/2 souls in 1 body version, so I'll take the aspects I like from that and save it for some future oc, this way I don't feel like something was lost in my inner world. c:
(Already have the idea, probably a demon lord and a hero died at the same time in a final battle that destroyed their original world, and now their souls are trapped together and only a magical event as powerful as that battle could maybe release their souls, but something that powerful would kill a lot of people and the hero refuses/sabotages the demon lord plans? They could eventually fall for each other and that would be powerful enough to release them idk, not very original but can be cute?)
Relatable. I also have autism and sometimes simple changes can be exhausting. The worse is when changes happen without an explanation, because the reason should be obvious and everyone should get it, and if someone doesn't get it, then it means they are bad people and should feel ashamed of themselves.
...As if I don't get things out of choice.
But at least the Subeta staff tried to further explain the whole change process, and they will also keep a "cursed" title, so that's good. Having the whys and the hows, it is easier to understand what happened to the "outer world" in a way I can make adjustments to my "inner world" and my "navigation map".
So, if it helps with mentally reorganizing things, the way I'm going about this is: There's old Nori and Mori (magic references), and new Nori and Mori (psychology references). I understand it is important for some people to replace the old for the new so they feel better represented, but I like my interpretation of the old magical/2 souls in 1 body version, so I'll take the aspects I like from that and save it for some future oc, this way I don't feel like something was lost in my inner world. c:
(Already have the idea, probably a demon lord and a hero died at the same time in a final battle that destroyed their original world, and now their souls are trapped together and only a magical event as powerful as that battle could maybe release their souls, but something that powerful would kill a lot of people and the hero refuses/sabotages the demon lord plans? They could eventually fall for each other and that would be powerful enough to release them idk, not very original but can be cute?)
It's cool that you're willing to self-flagellate to this level over fantasy DID and everything but the site still doesn't have basic ADA accoms like alt text for images.
I came back to this post to see how things were going and while the response is overwhelmingly positive, I am a tiny bit disappointed by the comments calling users oversensitive for this. Try to put yourself in the shoes of someone with DID experiencing Mono Ri - would you be happy if Subeta had a character that included direct allusions to (the achievement name, the original complaint) and demonized a group you're part of? I think it was the right call on the part of staff, even if not everyone will be affected by it.
@Cheshire you know, well stated and i understand your intentions but the language that you used did not convey that. it's just as important to note the people with comments like yours because it's overall mischaracterizing the userbase as all blatantly disrespectful because you're responding with strong, reactionary words because you personally want to aggressively make your point known. even though your intentions come from a place of being defensive for people that can't defend themselves, here they were defended, here they were properly attended. the scenario you responded to didn't happen. i think everyone has seen a lot of that sort of white knighting and they know it's reductive, you can make your point without going on the offensive, you can speak plainly without namecalling.
@bunny I am not the only person with this mindset, but I’m the only person you felt the need to call out directly? Minimizing the handful of horrible hot takes in this thread to “one person out of 90” isn’t accurate. You are right though, people who poopoo a change that never affected them negatively, and continues to not affect them negatively does rustle my jimmies. It reads more as “I don’t care for this change because I LIKE the hurtful language and want people to feel marginalized.” IMO that's not it, and I felt like speaking up. What I didn’t feel like doing was coming at them with pings to start a fight. I don’t want to have a conversation with them. My opinion won’t change their world view. But it will perhaps help the people who were upset by the gross comments feel like they have support. That is what is worth more to me.
@fun then maybe you should address those people individually, because what @Cheshire did was an ambiguous generalisation that was so oot that it was offensive and they did it to address an argument that wasn't anywhere in these comments, they did it just for the benefit of saying it, for the joy of being sassynright on the internet. and by pixel people you know i mean the drawings, right? because again, you faced zero opposition to this. you had support, you had a whole thank you news post. i'm not sure what will help you to maybe stop picking fights with people that agree with and support you, but i'll end on my own general statement that ma'am this is a wendy's. a virtual pet site, the tools to help with emotional regulation will not be found here
yeah bunny that one person needs to be acknowledged. i don't like to block people but what was said is seriously offensive. and Cheshire had to word things that way to avoid directly calling them out, pretty sure. though there is more than one person being an ass in the comments here. just one that really stands out.
i'm tired of people being able to say shitty things and we are supposed to ignore it. but i'll stop because i don't want the comments locked or whatever.
i'm tired of people being able to say shitty things and we are supposed to ignore it. but i'll stop because i don't want the comments locked or whatever.
@bunny they're right and i personally am happy to see people speaking against the hate and ignorance in this comment section whether you think it necessary or not. it's not "white knighting for the pixel people". real people were involved and hurt and multiple people in this comment section have shown that they don't care about the people that were effected and are repeatedly making not only ignorant but hateful comments. we are not just "pixel people" bestie
Color me confused. Are Mori and Nori REALLY examples of DID? Their condition is mystical, not organic. It's more like they're actually two separate people, not aspects of the same person. Even their appearance is naturally different. Also, what happens to the other when one is active? Are they shunted off to another dimension or what?
@Cheshire it's worse when people do this though, because it was like, one person out of 90 comments of positivity bestie. you're so riled and hyped on fighting on the internet that you're calling imaginary people out. you surely did tell us that you passed on the oppourtunity to read the room and with your whole chest out said Some of you must never have been discriminated against and it shows. Ignorance isn't a cute look for you. you don't need to white knight for the pixel people i'm fully deceased
while i always read the quests / characters as "innocent" (having played subeta for over a decade, i know harming users with DID was the last thing on the staff's mind), i love this update! i don't have DID myself, but have several friends with it and i know some of their alters are super shy because of how hostile people can be.
i completely relate to having too much to do with too little help... and admittedly have been rather critical to staff in the past despite this (which i'm not proud of). not that i don't think being critical has its place! it does on stuff like this, and i really appreciate staff taking accountability (the algonquin plushie is a great example timeframe wise) and listening to users on this, and kudos to the users that kept pushing for the change.
i completely relate to having too much to do with too little help... and admittedly have been rather critical to staff in the past despite this (which i'm not proud of). not that i don't think being critical has its place! it does on stuff like this, and i really appreciate staff taking accountability (the algonquin plushie is a great example timeframe wise) and listening to users on this, and kudos to the users that kept pushing for the change.
Thank you for a lovely update! I always find it very refreshing when staff can admit to mistakes or problematic things. It feels a lot safer to be around staff that can do that rather than staff that refuse to acknowledge it. Subeta, at least to me, is such a safe space and in my limited interaction on forums (I'm very antisocial and ADHD), has also been a very positive-focused space.
Thanks for always working on the site and making it the best it can be!
Thanks for always working on the site and making it the best it can be!
Is there anywhere that compares the old vs new lore, quest texts, and item descriptions? Honestly just want to see all the differences out of pure curiosity.
Amber
STAFF
Hi, here to answer a few things before I do all the Autumn things and then back to my shabbat time.
@Ravage @Pinocchio For the title - yes! We're not deleting 'cursed' as a forum title, we're just not having it associated with the Duality quests any more.
@stars_water Oh! I must've thought it matched up with the cursed minion because of the colors. I'll adjust that later.
@AnaSolidor @Lia It was important to our users to address this. It doesn't hurt the to own up to mistakes on my part, so I'm happy to do this for users. While this is mostly centered around the issue of changing Mori and Nori, it is also about the fact that it took well over a year to address something that could've been done a lot faster. I posted multiple times things like "Oh, we're working on it" or "We're a small team it's not been forgotten". This is criticism we've had before for things and mostly we've brushed it off but I think it's best to address it and move forward.
@TheGhostHybrid Thanks! Will attack these when I'm really working tomorrow.
@Ravage @Pinocchio For the title - yes! We're not deleting 'cursed' as a forum title, we're just not having it associated with the Duality quests any more.
@stars_water Oh! I must've thought it matched up with the cursed minion because of the colors. I'll adjust that later.
@AnaSolidor @Lia It was important to our users to address this. It doesn't hurt the to own up to mistakes on my part, so I'm happy to do this for users. While this is mostly centered around the issue of changing Mori and Nori, it is also about the fact that it took well over a year to address something that could've been done a lot faster. I posted multiple times things like "Oh, we're working on it" or "We're a small team it's not been forgotten". This is criticism we've had before for things and mostly we've brushed it off but I think it's best to address it and move forward.
@TheGhostHybrid Thanks! Will attack these when I'm really working tomorrow.
thank you for listening to users on their frustrations and doing this overhaul. there's always going to be at least some complainers but I'm comforted that the reception to this change is for the most part both positive and respectful. <3
also for those that can't remember where it is, the block list is hidden in the friends tab here:
https://subeta.net/friends.php?act=blocked
also for those that can't remember where it is, the block list is hidden in the friends tab here:
https://subeta.net/friends.php?act=blocked
Anything changes here and the jerks come out of the woodwork. Jist because something isn't about you and you "don't get it" doesn't mean you can't afford some respect to the people who it did have a negative effect on. If it didn't bother you before, cool. You don't need to say that to try and minimize or devalue how good a seemingly small change can be. Not everyone is the same. Yes, some things are hurtful to some groups of people. Yes, changing our language as time progresses to accommodate and help people feel safe is a good thing. Some of you must never have been discriminated against and it shows. Ignorance isn't a cute look for you. I appreciate subeta making an effort to be inclusive. It's never a bad thing to learn and change our behavior. Some of you could take a lesson from staff and make any effort to learn something new without being an absolute turd about it.
this is such a good change. makes me feel positive about the future of the site :) thank you so much for the work and thank you for the post!
I don't use to write on the news, but I want to celebrate Subeta giving a new step on the right direction again. Acknowledging the minorities and respecting their spaces is fundamental. 💜
And for those of you that feel that "Everyone is getting offended by everything now", you may want to read patiently the comments, the original thread, and all the reasons people had to raise their voice in favor of this change.
Nobody is "o f f e n d e d", people like to be treated with love and respect. You may are not affected by the problem, that doesn't mean it doesn't exist.
Inform yourself, listen to others, practice empathy. And, if after all that, you still think that treating people with respect and dignity is wrong, well... I'm sorry for you.
And for those of you that feel that "Everyone is getting offended by everything now", you may want to read patiently the comments, the original thread, and all the reasons people had to raise their voice in favor of this change.
Nobody is "o f f e n d e d", people like to be treated with love and respect. You may are not affected by the problem, that doesn't mean it doesn't exist.
Inform yourself, listen to others, practice empathy. And, if after all that, you still think that treating people with respect and dignity is wrong, well... I'm sorry for you.
I have DID and this is a HUGE, I MEAN ABSOLUTELY MASSIVELY cool move on y'alls part! I use this website to let my alters get a chance to express themselves through the wardrobe and this website has been a safe haven. That fact that you all care for people with 'scary' mental illness and... Just this is so amazing and kind and how everyone should respond when told their being offensive.
And I thought it would be better to separate this into a individual post.
Any ideas for a forum signature? I don’t think it’s possible to take and change “Cursed___” to “Duality__”. Of course, technically this can be done. But if we consider the signature separately from the character's history, it has a particular unique meaning that is important to many players.
Remind me how you could get this achievement? Do a total of 1000 of their quests?
If so, then at the moment, the following option comes to my mind: make this signature as a reward (for example) for 500 general quests, and Duality for 1000.
Because at first Mori and Nori thought it was their curse, but then they sorted themselves out and all that. It is just a though. Maybe someone (even staff) already figured how to make all that.
Kinda reminds me a quote:
Aziraphale: "Well, I'll be damned."
Crowley: "It’s not that bad when you get used to it."
(c.) Good Omens =)
Any ideas for a forum signature? I don’t think it’s possible to take and change “Cursed___” to “Duality__”. Of course, technically this can be done. But if we consider the signature separately from the character's history, it has a particular unique meaning that is important to many players.
Remind me how you could get this achievement? Do a total of 1000 of their quests?
If so, then at the moment, the following option comes to my mind: make this signature as a reward (for example) for 500 general quests, and Duality for 1000.
Because at first Mori and Nori thought it was their curse, but then they sorted themselves out and all that. It is just a though. Maybe someone (even staff) already figured how to make all that.
Kinda reminds me a quote:
Aziraphale: "Well, I'll be damned."
Crowley: "It’s not that bad when you get used to it."
(c.) Good Omens =)
Okay, in general, I kinda fine with all these changes. This site has always seemed very inclusive to me. But there are a couple of things that I can’t help but think: “am I really the only one with that? o_O”
1) It's a little strange for me to consider fictional magical creatures solely from a human point of view. And apply human laws to them, etc.
2) For some reason I didn’t consider Nori and Mori as one whole being o__O Perhaps I didn’t delve too deeply into it? (I'm generally not the most attentive person. For years I thought it was Marelia instead of Maleria xD). Don't know. Over the years that I have been on this site (almost 15 years), I have somehow passively formed a certain opinion or rather a feeling about them.
That they are more like siamese twins, but not literally? Like it’s not that night comes, Nori falls asleep, Mori wakes up and goes to dye their hair and change clothes. No. More like that these are literally two different beings who are forced to share one vessel? And, of course, the change happens magically. And okay, if you think about it like that, I guess, it looks like a Dissociative Identity Disorder. But I thought that initially they were separate creatures, which, through magical manipulations, became conditionally one. Due to the fact that they constantly quarreled, fought, and perhaps almost destroyed the world a couple of times. After which Shinwa (or someone else. maybe Shinwa along with Maleria) joined forces and punished them in this way. Like, until they learn to live peacefully with eachother, they will not separate back + as long as they “appear” in the world one by one, they do not pose much danger to its well-being. Something like that.
3) Just in case, I would like to add (I came across something on this topic): I never thought that Nori was good and Mori was bad, because in my understanding, Light does not equal Good, just as Darkness does not equal Evil.
4) Well, since we are here sharing our experiences and mental characteristics... xD
As a person with ADHD, high anxiety (and autism in question), who does not cope well with sudden changes in the picture of the world... This all stressed me out a little. About the same as, at one time, a very global change in the style of depicting characters. Something like: “ahh! help! They’re changing something here! O_O”
So I don't mean that these are changes for the better or for the worse. It’s just that the very fact of any changes is a little “O__O!” and sometimes it takes time to adapt.
p.s. Just in case: english is not my native language. Sorry if some of the sentences sound a little confusing and crooked ^^'
1) It's a little strange for me to consider fictional magical creatures solely from a human point of view. And apply human laws to them, etc.
2) For some reason I didn’t consider Nori and Mori as one whole being o__O Perhaps I didn’t delve too deeply into it? (I'm generally not the most attentive person. For years I thought it was Marelia instead of Maleria xD). Don't know. Over the years that I have been on this site (almost 15 years), I have somehow passively formed a certain opinion or rather a feeling about them.
That they are more like siamese twins, but not literally? Like it’s not that night comes, Nori falls asleep, Mori wakes up and goes to dye their hair and change clothes. No. More like that these are literally two different beings who are forced to share one vessel? And, of course, the change happens magically. And okay, if you think about it like that, I guess, it looks like a Dissociative Identity Disorder. But I thought that initially they were separate creatures, which, through magical manipulations, became conditionally one. Due to the fact that they constantly quarreled, fought, and perhaps almost destroyed the world a couple of times. After which Shinwa (or someone else. maybe Shinwa along with Maleria) joined forces and punished them in this way. Like, until they learn to live peacefully with eachother, they will not separate back + as long as they “appear” in the world one by one, they do not pose much danger to its well-being. Something like that.
3) Just in case, I would like to add (I came across something on this topic): I never thought that Nori was good and Mori was bad, because in my understanding, Light does not equal Good, just as Darkness does not equal Evil.
4) Well, since we are here sharing our experiences and mental characteristics... xD
As a person with ADHD, high anxiety (and autism in question), who does not cope well with sudden changes in the picture of the world... This all stressed me out a little. About the same as, at one time, a very global change in the style of depicting characters. Something like: “ahh! help! They’re changing something here! O_O”
So I don't mean that these are changes for the better or for the worse. It’s just that the very fact of any changes is a little “O__O!” and sometimes it takes time to adapt.
p.s. Just in case: english is not my native language. Sorry if some of the sentences sound a little confusing and crooked ^^'
I never viewed Nori or Mori as negative. This world is very frustrating. Everyone is offended by everything both online and offline. I'm not whining about change, I simply never saw them as something negative.
This is the Subeta I know.
It took you a while to get here, but you got here and that's what matters.
It took you a while to get here, but you got here and that's what matters.
This is not the most important thing by far, but I do appreciate that the new name hasn't affected the alphabetical placement in the list of quests.
very glad for this change, and hopeful for better communication in the future - thank you amber and team
"Oh no, can't believe I'm expected to be nice and learn new things!"
Go find a safe space to whine with your fellow bigots in peace, if you can't be bothered to make the effort to act like a human being.
This is a great change for the folks who need it, and does not affect the folks who don't need it in any way whatsoever except by maybe teaching us something.
Also great to see the staff acknowledging, apologising for and explaining things they didn't handle as well as they could have. It's really respectful to the playerbase in a way very few games manage.
Go find a safe space to whine with your fellow bigots in peace, if you can't be bothered to make the effort to act like a human being.
This is a great change for the folks who need it, and does not affect the folks who don't need it in any way whatsoever except by maybe teaching us something.
Also great to see the staff acknowledging, apologising for and explaining things they didn't handle as well as they could have. It's really respectful to the playerbase in a way very few games manage.
As someone who is a system/has some form of DID, this is amazing to see. Nori and Mori have been favorites of mine since I first joined (I'll admit, being a bit on the goth side, mori was a favorite especially.) Don't listen to the people complaining about the changes, keep up the good work!
I don't think you did it wrong, in the sense of "tackle everything at once" yes, it took time but it is a better aproach than change one item today, another tomorrow, only the ones that pops up in user conversations, being pointed in each actualization "what about this, this and another item?" That breaks the work flow AND give a confusing results by having old lore items mixed with new lore items
So, yes, do things right, even if it takes a bit more of time, for rushing incomplete stuff there is the rest of the internet actually
So, yes, do things right, even if it takes a bit more of time, for rushing incomplete stuff there is the rest of the internet actually